Challenge
When offered appealing yet false ideas, through news, books, or in conversation, note your feelings and analyse the attraction. Raise your hand and cup your ear.
CHALLENGE ◆ DISCUSS ◆ BEELZEBUB'S TALES
First Sunday of the month
in-person
9 to 10:30am Fee: £15
More info:
thework@gurdjieffmeetings.com
When offered appealing yet false ideas, through news, books, or in conversation, note your feelings and analyse the attraction. Raise your hand and cup your ear.
Experiences
N had been involved in a professional matter which should have been completed within two or three weeks but was prolonged by the other party's actions. The solicitor on the other side seemed to be making the process overly complicated and time-consuming, causing frustration for N, Ultimately, the person who was delaying things was dismissed and there was a period of a few weeks when things were on hold till a replacement was found, who turned out to be more helpful. During all this time, N observed his emotional reaction and tried to remain calm.
L said there had been a recent rise in anti-semitism, with people in the public eye spreading false claims that Israel deliberately allowed the recent attack. (It was also commonly heard in social situations.) This led to questions about the motivations of those who say it, and whether there was a desire to cause trouble. Some individuals might knowingly spread these false claims, while others may do so without fully believing them. L was less interested in consuming news and more focused on creating harmony through artistic expression.
Responses
Responding to N, L said the motivation for the delaying tactics he had encountered might have been for the individual concerned to charge more for their time.
Responding to L, N said the same had happened after 911 as well, similar conspiracy theories were spread, and the worst of it was that he had one or two quite intelligent friends who believed in them. It just seemed a little nonsensical, but it was extraordinary how people would promote the most extreme views in this fashion. Even though they could not possibly be accurate, this is what they asserted. L said he knew an otherwise intelligent person who believed that Israelis were involved in the 911 attacks. Also Stockhausen had perversely described them as a great work of art. It was hard to understand the motivation behind such claims. T suggested that the allure of conspiracy theories might stem from a deep-seated desire for order or control in the face of chaos, likening it to an "absent father" complex. This desire leads to elevating certain groups or entities, such as Jews and Israelis in this context, only to denigrate them, akin to a rebellious teenager's relationship with parental figures. This dynamic serves not only to externalize blame but also to cope with the fear and uncertainty that would arise if those accused truly had orchestrated such events.
Passage
First of all, know and remember this, that the young three-brained beings there ... who prepare themselves to take ... the profession of a physician only learn by rote as many names as possible from among the many thousands of these said medicinal means now known there.
Discussion
N said the approach to healthcare often felt mechanical and superficial, focusing primarily on symptoms without delving deeper into the patient's overall well-being. Rote-learning was also prevalent in the study of law.
Experiences
T had visited a chemist, served by a young woman who made simple errors in counting prescriptions. Initially, T felt superior, able to correct these mistakes. However, she spotted a warmie shaped like a sloth or raccoon, and thought of buying it for a relative. Her mood shifted, and she had a conversation about her family with the same assistant, treating her like a friend. T later reflected that this was an example of the challenge, achieved without conscious effort, but recognised only in retrospect.
When L became aware of being either haughty or servile, he tried to take that middle path, being friendly and genuine, though he was unsure if it worked. He thought about how altering his stance could be unexpected to others, akin to taking cheese from a cat, as the other person was taking the opposite stance. When he became aware of an instance of the challenge, he consciously nodded, smiled, and was friendly.
N recounted having lunch with someone who often made him feel inferior. They had a long chat, bringing things back more into the human realm, which equalised them a lot more, and N saw the more human side of the other person. It had been an effort to try and change his internal feelings, but by the end of the meal, N felt he had acheived something along those lines.
Responses
Responding to T's experience at the chemist, N highlighted the subconscious aspect of her interaction shift. He pointed out that T was aware at some level, which led her to change the subject to something more personal, like cuddly toys. L said the toy had acted as a transitional object.
Rober Picardo as Star Trek's "Emergency Medical Hologram" |
Passage
who, called differently on different planets, take upon themselves essential obligations in relation to the environment of beings similar to themselves—well, these Zirlikners are those responsible individuals who voluntarily devote the whole of their existence to helping any being of that region to fulfill his being-obligations, if this being for some reason or other, or simply thanks to a temporary irregular functioning of his planetary body, ceases to be able to fulfill his inner or outer being-duty by himself.
It must without fail be noticed that in former times also on your planet such professionals as are now called there physicians were almost the same and did almost the same as our Zirlikners among us; but gradually with the flow of time, the responsible beings there who devoted themselves to such a profession, namely, to the fulfillment of such a high voluntary being-duty taken upon themselves, degenerated like everything on that strange planet and became also absolutely peculiar.
Discussion
N compared psychiatrists to the Zirlikners, emphasizing their role in helping people fulfill their being-obligations and assisting them in living their full essence.
L noted the use of the word "duty" in the extract, suggesting that everyone has a duty to perform, which can be affected by physical or mental problems. The Zirlikners would probably not differentiate between these issues as they are often interconnected.
T mentioned the universal nature of problems, suggesting that issues similar to those on Earth also exist on other planets, including the planet of the Zirlikners.
J discussed the concept of individual devotion versus community obligations, highlighting the dilemma of balancing personal beliefs with the needs of the community. This reflects the extract's theme of selfless service and the degeneration of noble professions.
Passage
those professionals who for the most part, during the period of their preparation to be responsible beings, succeed, as is said there, in ‘learning by rote’ much miscellaneous information concerning those means for getting rid of every possible kind of what are called their ‘illnesses,’ means which old women in their dotage, during all previous times on their planet, employed upon or advised for three-brained beings there to this end.
Among the number of such means for getting rid of the said illnesses, there are chiefly various remedies existing under the name of ‘medicines.’
Discussion
J took this to mean Gurdjieff was against healers learning by rote. It was better to consider an individual case in depth. L said that a true healer was unlikely to go through medical school, as learning by rote was de rigeur.
Passage
both the intensity of the desire to help and the quality itself of the help given always depend exclusively on the smell there is in the house to which he is called...
But if the house to which such a terrestrial ‘Zirlikner’ is called for help to a needy being smells of what are called ‘cancelled-German-marks,’ then his inner being-wish to help the person in need also increases, but only in this respect, that he may write out as quickly as possible what is called a ‘prescription,’ invented by the Germans, and the more quickly leave the house.
Discussion
L commented on the brevity of consultations in the NHS, and the difficulty in obtaining them.
Experiences
L had encountered instances of insincerity in media, such as a police spokesmen making promises which were not adhered to, and universtity staff giving false assurances to protect students (which led to one abandoning a course). He also referenced the verse by Confucius:
If there be investigation in the world, there will be completeness in the understanding.
If there be completeness in the understanding, there will be sincerity in the mind.
If there be sincerity in the mind, there will be righteousness in the heart.
leading to the final couplet:
If there be order in the nation, there will be peace in the world.
T had initially focused on spotting insincerity in others during conversations and media, but soon realized its elusive nature. She defaulted to assuming sincerity but acknowledged the difficulty of truly discerning it in others. She then concluded that self-assessment was the only feasible approach. During conversations, she strove to balance sincerity and insincerity, often reflecting on her own speech. Context played a role, as casual topics aimed at putting others at ease also influenced sincerity. A notable instance involved sheltering from rain with a stranger, where the relative nature of sincerity became apparent, leading to increased compassion for others and herself, echoing the saying, "There are no strangers here, only friends you haven't met yet."
N discussed the prevalence of insincerity in media, particularly in relation to global conflicts like Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine. He said this insincerity negatively impacted individuals and society, leading people to believe that success required insincerity. Over the past month, he had observed media content, and noticed that John Pilger had died, who was a very left wing news person. Some said he was an amazing investigative journalist, but he was quite the reverse, and had propagated falsehoods to support his ideologies. In contrast, N commended Douglas Murray for his ability to call out insincerity.
Responses
Responding to T, N said many decent people tended to presume sincerity in others, taking them at face value without questioning. However people were often insincere without realizing it. L said he liked T's quote, but suggested it was based on a specific cultural context and was naive and not universally applicable. Expanding on N's comments, he said that insincerity could begin with ourselves, citing an example of failing to keep promises to oneself. So sincerity might originate in our own thoughts and minds, in being true to oneself.
On N's reflections, T spoke of deliberate lying, especially in politics, questioning its position on the spectrum from insincerity to sincerity. L said that lying might be subjective, dependent on cultural goals and perspectives, making it seem like a lie only from an external viewpoint. It was as if people were playing a game by different rules. N talked about self-deception, highlighting the inconsistency between the 'I' that makes promises and the 'I' that may, or may not, fulfil them. L said that external accountability was helpful to prevent self-deception. It was harder to press the "snooze" button for someone supposed to get to work early.
Passage
at first intentionally on the part of their ruminating parts, and later, thanks already to the habit which they had created, there began to be stifled and gradually to cease, ‘self-criticism.’ And so, by reason of this ‘impotency’ arising and always increasing in their organization, which involved, by constant repetition, the whole disharmony of all the functioning of their psyche, there gradually almost disappeared from their common presences such data also infallibly inherent in every three-brained being of all our Great Universe for manifesting sincerity even towards themselves.
Discussion
N thought this was trying to say how the process of insincerity came about in us, and that that data which was there for us to recognise insincerity, and so therefore act on it, eventually got blotted out from our consciousness, such that we forgot - we didn't want to self criticise ourselves in the end. So with that disappearance, the sort of voice in us, which could perceive insincerity in ourselves, also disappeared. L thought it was suggesting that just as it was virtually impossible to be awake, for more than a moment, it was also virtually impossible to be sincere.
Passage
These two properties consist in this, that they always behave towards each other either, so to say, ‘haughtily’ or ‘servilely.’...
The said property which already became inherent in their common presences gradually led to this, that they lost the habit and automatically ceased to be able to be sincere with other beings similar to themselves, even with those belonging to their own caste.
Discussion
N thought this was very interesting. He had observed it in himself as well, sometimes servility, sometimes haughtiness with other people, and not the ability to be one's natural self. He noted how these structures, such as in schools and workplaces, compeled people to behave in certain ways.
T suggested that new caste systems were emerging, and highlighted the importance of viewing others as individuals rather than representatives of a social class or group.
J said that individuals often reacted to others as symbols of a social class rather than as individuals.
Passage
to choose, from among the professions existing there, that one which gives the possibility at times of automatically establishing among them those relations by which they can be sincere up to a certain degree, ...
That is why I then became just such a professional there as is called at the present time a ‘physician’.
This profession there corresponds somewhat to that profession which those whom we call our ‘Zirlikners’ have.
... I did not wish to choose this profession for myself, ... for the sole reason that this profession constantly constrains one to play outwardly a role and never allows one to consider one’s inner real impulses.
Discussion
L questioned the meaning of 'Zirlikners.' N suggested it might mean psychologists, referring to the listening psychoanalyst rather than a priest taking religious confession. However, either way it meant the practicianer adopting a role, and hence Beelzebub prefferred to be a physician which allowed for a degree of sincerity.
Experiences
While having a haircut, L said to the stylist that it was an art, and the stylist replied it was a craft. This precise choice of word remindeded L of the challenge, and he later researched it, uncovering its original connotations of strength and power. Another time, at a ceramics exhibition, he learned about chalices from an artist, another precise word. He forgot to do the deep breathing at the exhibition, but later checked the etymology, linking chalice to the Greek 'calyx', or flower.
Responses
N said craft was related to power, as the German kraft was the same word. He mentioned the Arts and Craft movement of William Morris. He thought of his work in law as a bit of a craft. Part of it was taking pride in one's work and one's professionalism and following values and ethics - it comes with responsibility as well as power. T was surprised it was to do with strength and power, because it had become so diminished in its meaning, and artists did not like to think of themselves as craftsmen any more. She said that craft was the 90% of getting it right. L said that craft was about serving others, whereas art might not be of practical use.
Passage
to equal participation in our international five-o'clocks.
And indeed such contemporary beings there, namely, such as become representatives of important communities, know nothing of course of the true reasons why, that is, on their planet, beings similar to them, dwelling on one or another part of the surface of their planet or who make up this or the other community, become at times temporarily 'important' or 'great.'...
And in regard to the third language which these assembled representatives also proposed making the common planetary language, namely, that language which they call Esperanto - ... they themselves, with all the bobtailedness of their reason, immediately reflected that this language could not now in any way be useful for their purpose.
The inventors of this language must have imagined that a language is like one of their contemporary sciences which can be cooked up at home.
Discussion
L noted the capricious nature of science, characteized as bobtailed reasoning. The five-o-clock's reminded him of the large numbers of attendees at climate summits and demonstrations.
Passage
it never entered into their heads that every more or less ‘practical’ language can be formed only in the course of many centuries and even then only during the process of more or less normal being-existence...
In short, this promising beginning of theirs, in this business of establishing one common planetary language, changed nothing there in their ‘height of absurdity’ and everything remained as before down till now, that is, this comparatively petty planet, with a petty ‘half-dead terra firma,’ continues to remain, as again our dear teacher Mullah Nassr Eddin says, ‘a thousand-tongued hydra.’
Discussion
N noted the irony in the passage about Esperanto potentially becoming a universal language. English had evolved to be a global lingua franca, mainly due to its role in science, business, and commerce. He mentioned current efforts to reintroduce French into international prominence but expressed skepticism about these attempts, considering English's widespread use, especially in major nations like China and India.
Passage
But meanwhile, by this time, as it proved, there had already been almost atrophied in them every kind of data for the arising in their presences of the being-impulse called ‘sincerity.’ And it was atrophied to such a degree that they no longer had the possibility, even if they wished, to be sincere, and not only with other beings but even with their own selves, that is, they already could not with one of their spiritualized parts criticize and judge another part of themselves impartially.
...The basis for the atrophying of the first of the mentioned data is derived from the fact of the disturbance of the coordination of their common psyche.
Discussion
N spoke of how we often lied to ourselves. We had atrophied that capacity within us to see ourselves with great impartiality, losing the ability to recognize this self-deception. He thought it was necessary to have friends or a group to provide external perspective and challenge our self-perceptions.
L said the tone of the text was almost as if there was no hope of succeeding anyway. It was worth trying but one should not expect too much.
T said it was the basis of Freudian analysis, that a person needed somebody to help you analyse what you were thinking and believing, and where that came from, and to question at every point.
L said this was why Gurdjieff's group settings, as already established in psychotherapy, were important for providing collective support and insight.
Experiences
Even out of London, most conversations L overheard were not in English. When people were speaking in English, it sometimes sounded like a foreign language. Some exchanges sounded sharp and unpolished, and some felt warm and loving. On one occasion, L was on a station platform and heard someone in the background, on the phone. L sensed agitation in the caller, but no change in himself. Usually it was conversations on the phone, as if people were speaking to themselves, usually quite agitated, but the previous day there had been a couple talking at a restaurant table. L raised his eyebrow, which was the physical part of the challenge. On the way out, they held hands, which felt like a continuation of the conversation.
T observed various conversations during her daily activities. She noticed animated one-sided conversations, where individuals seemed deeply engaged in their own thoughts, often while walking or standing together. In other instances, she witnessed dialogues where one person was attempting to convince another, either in personal or professional contexts. One particular conversation that stood out to her involved two workmen on the street, discussing how to fit or repair something. This conversation was grounded in a physical object and task, with both men actively engaged in trying to work something out. Their language was distinct and closely connected to their task, illustrating a practical application of language in physical reality. While passing these workmen, T caught a foreign language, prompting her to raise an eyebrow, a part of the challenge. She found this action somewhat challenging, noticing a difference in ease between both sides of her face. This physical act led her to become more aware of the qualitative difference in the workmen's conversation, particularly in comparison to other conversations she had observed. It was only upon reflecting and noting down her experience that T fully recognized the distinct tone and quality in the language of the workmen, connected to movement and a physical task, differing from other more abstract conversations.
N frequently encountered French, particularly at bus stops. At work he had been involved in a significant matter where another language posed a challenge. Despite not speaking it, he had navigated lengthy meetings facilitated by colleagues who did. These meetings, which were intended to last about an hour, often stretched to three hours due to continuous translations. The conversations sometimes became heated, highlighting the difficulties in achieving accurate communication with non-English speakers. N found it difficult to keep the discussion focused, as it often veered off-topic. These extended meetings, filled with translations, were exhausting and demonstrated the potential for misunderstandings and the importance of cultural sensitivity.
Responses
Responding to N, L noted that drifting away from the main point of a discussion was a common issue, both in meetings and in the context of the Gurdjieff Work. T observed that N was needed for his English. The client had to trust the translator to convey N's thoughts accurately, and in turn N had to trust that what he heard was a true representation of the client's words.
Passage
The first of the said three languages ... arose from a small group of Asiatic fishermen ...
From the beings of this community, that is from these said ancient Greeks, not only many different sciences but likewise their language reached contemporary beings.
But the second language which they proposed to make a common planetary language, namely, ‘Latin,’ was the language spoken by the beings of that ancient solid community formed, as I have also told you, from a small group of Asiatic shepherds, ...
Discussion
T said Gurdjieff might be poking fun at the high regard in which these languages are held in esteemed educational institutions. She lamented the decline in teaching Latin and Ancient Greek in contemporary education, contrasting this with their historical significance. She regretted not learning Latin, as it can help so much in understanding English.
Experiences
T had focused on observing ideologies, exemplified by Oliver Dowden's impassioned speech at the UN on AI regulation, which elicited mixed emotions in her - fear, pity, embarrassment, and a lack of enthusiasm - leading her to ponder the relative weakness of political power against multinational tech corporations that are competing with each other. She questioned the ethical integrity of AI development, wondering if decisions were genuinely made for the "greater good." Her reflections extended to AI's potential long-term impact on organic life, contrasting its potential sustainability with the fragility of the human ecosystem.
Responses
Responding to T, N acknowledged the significance of considering organic life within ethical debates, particularly concerning technological advancements like AI. He supported T's apprehensions about the limited scope of contemporary ethical dialogues, particularly when powerful corporations primarily drove these discussions. He emphasised that humanity acted as "trustees" of Earth and questioned whether existing ethical frameworks adequately accounted for this broader perspective, especially in the development and application of AI. He further speculated on the potentially destructive choices AI systems might make based on an objective analysis of human impact on the universe.
Passage
Just at the beginning of this sixth personal sojourn of mine I soon categorically made clear ... that most of the causes of the strangeness of their psyche are found not in that usual consciousness of theirs, ... but in that consciousness of theirs which, thanks to their abnormal ordinary being-existence, was gradually driven within their common presence and which although it should have been their real consciousness, yet remains in them in its primitive state and is called their ‘subconsciousness.’
... in that part of their psyche there are not yet atrophied the data for the fourth sacred impulse which is named ‘Objective-Conscience.’
Discussion
T elaborated on the notion of "Objective-Conscience," stating the text meant that the values that should be at the forefront of our minds are not there; they have shifted into our subconscious.
N added that these values haven't been lost; they have just moved into the subconscious, reinforcing the idea that objective values exist in the subconscious, and work is needed to bring them to the forefront of our consciousness.
Passage
if one of the inhabitants of any locality of this planet by chance finds himself in another place of the same planet, he has no possibility whatever of intercourse with the beings there similar to himself, unless he learns their language.
... in the common presences of these unfortunate beings the data in general for instinctive perception were long ago atrophied - becomes absolutely helpless and can neither ask for what he really needs, nor understand a word of what is said to him.
Discussion
L said this was suggesting that at some point, human beings were more instinctively able to communicate, than at present.
(Loading...)