At the start of the Meeting, RM recommended a new film Hugo he had recently seen which provides insights into the human machine through the metaphor of historical automata. It is based on the book The Invention of Hugo Cabret by Brian Selznick.
Each person present then gave an example of relevant experiences from the previous month, using Nancy Kline's structure.
RM had been reading the accounts of Gurdjieff's meetings in Paris and New York which reiterated that we are all machines. The only way to wake up is by paying attention. There are schools in London based on the teachings of a guru in India, which are not receptive to any talk of Gurdjieff. Once a group becomes closed to differing ideas, progress slows.
M had been reviewing methods of being awake. He observed negative emotions whilst meditating, and gave attention to the source of emotional distractions. He was able to trace these mental processes to imitation of his parents when very young. If one can notice these thoughts when they enter the mind one is more aware and can decide whether to go along with the distraction. He observed this ten times in a day and changed direction each time.
L had been spending fifteen minutes every day on clearing at home. Sometimes, when returning home late and tired, with other things to do, it can be tempting to omit the fifteen minute session, but habits are hard won and easy to break. He felt that if he can do the fifteen minutes every day without fail, that he can accomplish anything, but if he can't do it with consistency, then he can accomplish nothing, for what do words and intention mean if they are not carried through?
Following Nancy Kline, there was then a period of review.
L confirmed RM's point, mentioning that a school associated with Ouspensky is much more connected with the same source he had mentioned.
RM said that groups need an identity, but once they are given it, it becomes a doctrine. For example, the group he referred to, had no interest in the Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre, which is nearby in England at Bourne End. Gurdjieff advised to discover the truth as you find it to be true for yourselves, it is a process of discovery. The observer has no identity - the identity moves further back and back into being the observer, it is a comparable to stepping back toward a cliff where identity will end. He has been reading One Minute Wisdom by Anthony De Mello. In one section the teacher asks students if God exists. Both those who answer yes or no are wrong, as if God has no form, how can you give it an existence? As soon as you answer the question you are wrong. L commented how well this fits into quantum physics, as merely to look at something changes it. RM finds he keeps turning back to the Bhagavad Gita.
L said that it is hard to do art without a reason, but reasons are usually associated with identity. RM thought that in the case of music there is a valid purpose - music symbolises the sense of harmony which makes the youthful illusion of duality disappear. L asked if it is a purpose or a function - these may come down to the same thing.
Continuing the Kline method, each person now optionally had a further brief time to speak to attentive listeners.
RM continued by saying that it has made him fearful when organisations suggest he become a speaker or representative official - he would have to take on and present the dogma of the organisation; he wants to learn from all doctrines - we can only grow if we are challenged. He has been looking for the root source of anxieties accumulated through childhood, marriage and work, which he thinks is his image through the eyes of others. By thus going to the root of issues causing identity, he is waiting to find out if he will in fact then feel free.
Following the reviews of the month, the Meeting continued reading Beelzebub's Tales.
"... there immediately comes to my brain ... the following words: "every stick always has two ends. ... In trying first to understand the basic thought and real significance hidden in this ... formulation, there must ... first arise ... the supposition that ... every cause occurring in the life of man, ... as one of two opposite effects of other causes, is in its turn obligatorily moulded also into two quite opposite effects ..."
There was some discussion as to what this means. L commented that things do not have clear causes and effects. There is a saying that for every great truth, there is an equal and opposite great truth. For example, do the achievements of our society follow from capitalism or socialism, for example?
In closing, it was noted that the next Meeting would be, as usual, on the first Sunday of the month, New Years Day 2012 at 9am.
Sunday, December 4, 2011
Sunday, November 6, 2011
Three Forces
The meeting opened with each present giving an example of relevant experiences from the previous month. Following L's suggestion in the October meeting, these descriptions were timed to a maximum of five minutes each.
L mentioned two recent events, both of which relate to the honest experiencing of existential reality with its attendant challenges. He is going the following day for an ultrasound test of a lump in his neck. If it turns out to be a serious problem, he intends to expand his work in creative art from 50% to 100% of his time. The reminder of physical death brings home the idea that we are all in a ship of fools. As we get older and closer to death, reality is not very pleasant. In contrast, he recently went to a concert at a Christian group where music from opera was played and sung, usually depicting the death of the hero or heroine. The Christian message was the reverse, the music to sweeten the belief in eternal life in heaven. Had he spoken of other views he would have been an enemy in the temple. "R" suggested that L had described two different subjective impressions of reality, with neither being right or wrong. RM talked of Christianity's belief in rewards for good behaviour, and punishment for bad. "R" considered the tents protest outside St Pauls Cathedral as an interesting demonstration of church and individuals being present, which is making a debate happen.
M recounted exploring the concept of the Third Force. Gurdjieff's writing on the subject had seemed unnecessarily complicated, so he referred to Maurice Nicoll's commentaries. There were so many interesting references that in fact he followed up other subjects instead. "R" asked M to cite an example of the Third Force. M gave an example of preparing a meal. The Second Force is resistive balancing the First Force of intention (e.g. wanting a meal); the Third Force is within yourself. What is making the decision?
T said the fact M followed up other subjects instead was a good example of the Second Force at work.
"R" referred to page 752 of Beelzebub's Tales, which links the three forces to the phrase Gurdjieff expounds on at the beginning of the book:
and in various cases expressed the hidden meaning of them and also their longing to have a beneficent effect from them for their own individuality, by the following prayers:
RM said that creativity cannot happen without the three forces coming into play. The reconciling force and the forces of fear and desire disappear in Vedic teaching. God endures the balance and things continue in the creative process. The force of love is a harmonising force. Balance can be allowed to occur naturally. We can't choose at all.
D's experience from the month was of noticing that he was categorising people as he walked down the street, trying to slot them into categories. He remembered the words "Judge not, less ye be judged". Discernment was preferable to judging. L said he did the same, but noticed that he himself often fitted into the same categories he ascribed to others. However in D's case, as a writer, he thought it might be constructive to think about and observe others in terms of it being raw material for books.
"R" spoke of visiting her mother twice a day, who is in a care home and has become more gloomy and more miserable. "R" feels that her work there is to be there and soak up the negativity. The caring staff are limited by their state of sleep both physical and emotional; they might bring a meal but forget the fork or spoon, acting like that with everybody.
D said that there is a general malaise in the world. There is more to distract people. He saw a man on his mobile phone walking across the lights when they were green. The man thumped a car which braked with his hand in anger! RM suggested that maybe both pedestrian and motorist were asleep, and that the pedestrian had awoken the motorist.
RM has been reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Tolle writes about different thinking levels above and below the conscious. Below you are a machine. Above you are paying attention. Ego pains become apparent. He has been using the mantra "every cell in my body glows with conscious attention", which has been very powerful, but he has been having difficulty sleeping because of the mantra. The process of becoming aware cannot be rushed and has to take its time. How should a person rest when one not consciously working?
T suggested swimming, which distracts the body because it is in a medium that is not the usual medium, and touches the body all over. The mind is stilled because the body is awakened. It is a simple activity going up and down the lengths of a pool but is complex and distracting for the body to experience. This distracts the body and the mind keeps going, directing the swimming.
D said that while waiting for something to happen, the human psyche experiences pain and boredom. The more enlightened you are, the more difficult things become. With more power comes with more temptation.
L suggested that this form of sleep might be a sound mechanism for psychological balance, just as physical sleep helps the physical body. Becoming awake might entail experiencing pain.
T's experience related to how a busy therapy session made her late for a following meeting. Although the work with patients had been rewarding and interesting, she was in a state of sleep, and criticism for arriving late awoke her.
E talked of Wilfred Bion, who ran sessions which aimed to be in the present, without connection to any earlier sessions, without memory and desire. The ego can be lured to sleep by giving it a repetitive activity to do, like focusing on the body, the breath, knitting, or repeating a mantra, allowing the higher self free to be present. Referring to earlier discussion of the Third Force, E also talked of Kurt Lewin's concept of Force Field Analysis, which examines the balance of motive and resistive influences and looks for ways to break through resistance. D talked of Gurdjieff's musical metaphor of resistance in the Enneagram symbol, with tonic sol-fa, and L said that, whilst it might not apply exactly to the symbol, in classical music harmony fa is a point of resistance where music naturally falls back to me.
It transpired that in fact, with all the ensuing discussion, the time taken had expanded to ten minutes each on average (which with seven present had used most of the meeting's scheduled time), so that an adaptation to the structure was needed. E suggested drawing from the ideas of Nancy Kline (the "Thinking Environment"). Rather than five minutes, each person in turn would speak for two minutes while everyone else was fully attentive.There would be then be a period for discussion, after which each member in turn could, if they wished, speak for a further two minutes. It was agreed by all that this be tried at the following meeting to allow more time to consider the writings of Gurdjieff.
The Meeting then returned to reading from Beelzebub's Tales, Chapter I, The Arousing of Thought.
L initially mentioned there had been email correspondence from BS in India. [Removed at the request of BS.]
L continued with the reading:
"That is why I now, also, setting forth on this venture quite new for me, namely, authorship, ... begin by pronouncing this utterance and moreover pronounce it not only aloud, but even very distinctly and with a full, ... 'wholly-manifested-intonation' ..."
L suggested that maybe, with such extraordinary drawing of attention to the phrase and its enunciation aloud, Gurdjieff is advocating its recitation as a mantra, as BS has been experimenting with.
Talking about his new venture in writing, Gurdjieff continues: "Having thus begun, I can now be quite at ease, and ... be beyond all doubt assured that everything further in this new venture of mine will now proceed, as is said, 'like a pianola.'... I have always done everything, absolutely everything, not as it is done by other, like myself, biped destroyers of Nature's good. Therefore, in writing now I ought, and perhaps am even on principle already obliged, to begin not as any other writer would. In any case, instead of the conventional preface I shall begin quite simply with a Warning."
The reference to a pianola reminded L of E's reference to automatic following of breathing, or other physical activity, as a mechanism for lulling the ego to sleep.
L mentioned two recent events, both of which relate to the honest experiencing of existential reality with its attendant challenges. He is going the following day for an ultrasound test of a lump in his neck. If it turns out to be a serious problem, he intends to expand his work in creative art from 50% to 100% of his time. The reminder of physical death brings home the idea that we are all in a ship of fools. As we get older and closer to death, reality is not very pleasant. In contrast, he recently went to a concert at a Christian group where music from opera was played and sung, usually depicting the death of the hero or heroine. The Christian message was the reverse, the music to sweeten the belief in eternal life in heaven. Had he spoken of other views he would have been an enemy in the temple. "R" suggested that L had described two different subjective impressions of reality, with neither being right or wrong. RM talked of Christianity's belief in rewards for good behaviour, and punishment for bad. "R" considered the tents protest outside St Pauls Cathedral as an interesting demonstration of church and individuals being present, which is making a debate happen.
M recounted exploring the concept of the Third Force. Gurdjieff's writing on the subject had seemed unnecessarily complicated, so he referred to Maurice Nicoll's commentaries. There were so many interesting references that in fact he followed up other subjects instead. "R" asked M to cite an example of the Third Force. M gave an example of preparing a meal. The Second Force is resistive balancing the First Force of intention (e.g. wanting a meal); the Third Force is within yourself. What is making the decision?
T said the fact M followed up other subjects instead was a good example of the Second Force at work.
"R" referred to page 752 of Beelzebub's Tales, which links the three forces to the phrase Gurdjieff expounds on at the beginning of the book:
"three holy forces ...
the first, 'God-the-Father';
the second, 'God-the-Son';
and the third, 'God-the-Holy-Ghost';
and in various cases expressed the hidden meaning of them and also their longing to have a beneficent effect from them for their own individuality, by the following prayers:
'Sources of Divine
Rejoicings, revolts and sufferings,
Direct your actions upon us.'
or
'Holy-Affirming,
Holy-Denying,
Holy-Reconciling,
Transubstantiate in me
For my Being.'
or
'Holy God,
Holy Firm,
Holy Immortal,
Have mercy on us.'"
RM said that creativity cannot happen without the three forces coming into play. The reconciling force and the forces of fear and desire disappear in Vedic teaching. God endures the balance and things continue in the creative process. The force of love is a harmonising force. Balance can be allowed to occur naturally. We can't choose at all.
D's experience from the month was of noticing that he was categorising people as he walked down the street, trying to slot them into categories. He remembered the words "Judge not, less ye be judged". Discernment was preferable to judging. L said he did the same, but noticed that he himself often fitted into the same categories he ascribed to others. However in D's case, as a writer, he thought it might be constructive to think about and observe others in terms of it being raw material for books.
"R" spoke of visiting her mother twice a day, who is in a care home and has become more gloomy and more miserable. "R" feels that her work there is to be there and soak up the negativity. The caring staff are limited by their state of sleep both physical and emotional; they might bring a meal but forget the fork or spoon, acting like that with everybody.
D said that there is a general malaise in the world. There is more to distract people. He saw a man on his mobile phone walking across the lights when they were green. The man thumped a car which braked with his hand in anger! RM suggested that maybe both pedestrian and motorist were asleep, and that the pedestrian had awoken the motorist.
RM has been reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Tolle writes about different thinking levels above and below the conscious. Below you are a machine. Above you are paying attention. Ego pains become apparent. He has been using the mantra "every cell in my body glows with conscious attention", which has been very powerful, but he has been having difficulty sleeping because of the mantra. The process of becoming aware cannot be rushed and has to take its time. How should a person rest when one not consciously working?
T suggested swimming, which distracts the body because it is in a medium that is not the usual medium, and touches the body all over. The mind is stilled because the body is awakened. It is a simple activity going up and down the lengths of a pool but is complex and distracting for the body to experience. This distracts the body and the mind keeps going, directing the swimming.
D said that while waiting for something to happen, the human psyche experiences pain and boredom. The more enlightened you are, the more difficult things become. With more power comes with more temptation.
L suggested that this form of sleep might be a sound mechanism for psychological balance, just as physical sleep helps the physical body. Becoming awake might entail experiencing pain.
T's experience related to how a busy therapy session made her late for a following meeting. Although the work with patients had been rewarding and interesting, she was in a state of sleep, and criticism for arriving late awoke her.
E talked of Wilfred Bion, who ran sessions which aimed to be in the present, without connection to any earlier sessions, without memory and desire. The ego can be lured to sleep by giving it a repetitive activity to do, like focusing on the body, the breath, knitting, or repeating a mantra, allowing the higher self free to be present. Referring to earlier discussion of the Third Force, E also talked of Kurt Lewin's concept of Force Field Analysis, which examines the balance of motive and resistive influences and looks for ways to break through resistance. D talked of Gurdjieff's musical metaphor of resistance in the Enneagram symbol, with tonic sol-fa, and L said that, whilst it might not apply exactly to the symbol, in classical music harmony fa is a point of resistance where music naturally falls back to me.
It transpired that in fact, with all the ensuing discussion, the time taken had expanded to ten minutes each on average (which with seven present had used most of the meeting's scheduled time), so that an adaptation to the structure was needed. E suggested drawing from the ideas of Nancy Kline (the "Thinking Environment"). Rather than five minutes, each person in turn would speak for two minutes while everyone else was fully attentive.There would be then be a period for discussion, after which each member in turn could, if they wished, speak for a further two minutes. It was agreed by all that this be tried at the following meeting to allow more time to consider the writings of Gurdjieff.
The Meeting then returned to reading from Beelzebub's Tales, Chapter I, The Arousing of Thought.
L initially mentioned there had been email correspondence from BS in India. [Removed at the request of BS.]
L continued with the reading:
"That is why I now, also, setting forth on this venture quite new for me, namely, authorship, ... begin by pronouncing this utterance and moreover pronounce it not only aloud, but even very distinctly and with a full, ... 'wholly-manifested-intonation' ..."
L suggested that maybe, with such extraordinary drawing of attention to the phrase and its enunciation aloud, Gurdjieff is advocating its recitation as a mantra, as BS has been experimenting with.
Talking about his new venture in writing, Gurdjieff continues: "Having thus begun, I can now be quite at ease, and ... be beyond all doubt assured that everything further in this new venture of mine will now proceed, as is said, 'like a pianola.'... I have always done everything, absolutely everything, not as it is done by other, like myself, biped destroyers of Nature's good. Therefore, in writing now I ought, and perhaps am even on principle already obliged, to begin not as any other writer would. In any case, instead of the conventional preface I shall begin quite simply with a Warning."
The reference to a pianola reminded L of E's reference to automatic following of breathing, or other physical activity, as a mechanism for lulling the ego to sleep.
Sunday, October 2, 2011
The "Stop Exercise"
The meeting opened with each present giving an example of relevant experiences from the previous month, as D had suggested at the August meeting.
M said he experienced feeling awake more often. T asked for an example. M described how he had left his flat without a set of keys he needed, but almost immediately remembered his purpose and returned to collect them.
T related that having missed a meeting, she felt out of touch, but that her real work is being done when she paints. She has instituted a system with a thirty minute timer. At the moment it goes off, she has to stop. This reminds her of Gurdjieff's "stop exercise", as she has to stop irrespective of where she is at. It's not about the painting, it's about the use of attention.
RM agreed, and recounted that when working on a farm as a member of a Gurdjieff Group, people were told to keep attention on the work, not on the expectation - a gong would sound and everyone would stop and observe their feelings. While working in this way time can seem to stretch. When elderly people say time passes quickly it is because they spend more time asleep. If they say they only need four hours sleep a night, it is because they spend hours of the day "asleep".
L suggested that the slow passing of time indicates that a person is awake.
RM said that he thought it likely that Gurdjieff never stopped working.
L said that since the previous meeting he has come to consider the possibility of a fourth mind - creative or artistic - in addition to the instinctive, emotional and intellectual. Sometimes things slot into place or take shape over weeks, months or years in making art.
D said that a songwriter might sometimes get a tune instantly while doing something completely unrelated like driving - jot it down and it becomes a hit.
RM thought it was a matter of bisociative thinking.
D said Colin Wilson's view in The War Against Sleep was that Gurdjieff did not consider imagination.
Turning to his own experience during the month, D recounted that he has moved house. He had to get rid of a lot of books which he found very difficult. He realised how much attachment he felt to the books, and how much he valued one in particular, an original copy of Beelzebubs Tales which he had never read, and rescued from the black bags of those to be thrown away, which even charity shops were not interested in - he thought that there is a huge destruction of books going on.
RM described an exercise he has developed to help him wake up. He has been trying to find ways (like seeing how many lamposts he can count while walking before falling asleep), and has worked out a mantra designed to create a rhythm in the mind of awareness and attention: "Every cell of my body glows with attentive awareness - with every step I take my body glows with attentive awareness ...". He has found that his memory has been improving since, and has learnt to recite twelve Shakespeare sonnets. Each sentence has come to feel like a single dictionary entry. He recited one:
Look in thy glass, and tell the face thou viewest
Now is the time that face should form another;
Whose fresh repair if now thou not renewest,
Thou dost beguile the world, unbless some mother,
For where is she so fair whose unear'd womb
Disdains the tillage of thy husbandry?
Or who is he so fond will be the tomb
Of his self-love, to stop posterity?
Thou art thy mother's glass, and she in thee
Calls back the lovely April of her prime:
So thou through windows of thine age shall see
Despite of wrinkles this thy golden time.
But if thou live, remember'd not to be,
Die single, and thine image dies with thee.
D said it reminded him of Gurdjieff's writing in Beelzebub's Tales, and wondered where Shakespeare had come across the ideas.
RM said the sonnets contain Rosicrucian teachings.
M asserted that they and the plays were written by Francis Bacon.
RM said that Bacon could not publish plays under his own name as it would have been considered inappropriate for a senior official to be a playwright.
As so much time had passed in going through the month's experiences, L suggested that a timer system be introduced from next month, five minutes per person, and this was agreed by all present.
The Meeting then turned to reading from Beelzebub's Tales, Chapter I, The Arousing of Thought.
...always and everywhere on the earth...that definite utterance understandable to every even quite illiterate person, which in different epochs has been formulated variously and in our day is formulated in the following words: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Ghost, Amen."
M asked about the meaning of the phrase, saying that he thought the "Holy Ghost" was a reference to Gurdjieff's concept of Third Force.
L said that there is often some thing new to notice when coming back to the text. In this case the phrase "always and everywhere" seems to be an echo of the title "All and Everything" of the collection of books beginning with this paragraph.
M recalled an account of Gurdjieff being asked if anything of substance exists after death. In response Gurdjieff asked if there was anything of substance now.
T described a conversation she had recently heard on a bus. A mother asked her little boy "What do you want to eat?" The boy was not interested in food and asked what he was going to do after she died. This was an aware question, and who is willing to help such a child with thinking about it?
D remembered being a child in an institution, looking at the stars, and wondering what was up there.
RM wondered why the old Beelzebub's Tales edition was being used rather than the newer one, as he remembered Gurdjieff students being enthusiastic about it before publication.
L read the section of the July meeting's account where this was discussed.
RM said he would like to prepare a list of basic principles of Gurdjieff's teachings, and thought this would attract and help new members.
L said there were several informative links on the webpage, and another could be added to link to the list.
M said he experienced feeling awake more often. T asked for an example. M described how he had left his flat without a set of keys he needed, but almost immediately remembered his purpose and returned to collect them.
T related that having missed a meeting, she felt out of touch, but that her real work is being done when she paints. She has instituted a system with a thirty minute timer. At the moment it goes off, she has to stop. This reminds her of Gurdjieff's "stop exercise", as she has to stop irrespective of where she is at. It's not about the painting, it's about the use of attention.
RM agreed, and recounted that when working on a farm as a member of a Gurdjieff Group, people were told to keep attention on the work, not on the expectation - a gong would sound and everyone would stop and observe their feelings. While working in this way time can seem to stretch. When elderly people say time passes quickly it is because they spend more time asleep. If they say they only need four hours sleep a night, it is because they spend hours of the day "asleep".
L suggested that the slow passing of time indicates that a person is awake.
RM said that he thought it likely that Gurdjieff never stopped working.
L said that since the previous meeting he has come to consider the possibility of a fourth mind - creative or artistic - in addition to the instinctive, emotional and intellectual. Sometimes things slot into place or take shape over weeks, months or years in making art.
D said that a songwriter might sometimes get a tune instantly while doing something completely unrelated like driving - jot it down and it becomes a hit.
RM thought it was a matter of bisociative thinking.
D said Colin Wilson's view in The War Against Sleep was that Gurdjieff did not consider imagination.
Turning to his own experience during the month, D recounted that he has moved house. He had to get rid of a lot of books which he found very difficult. He realised how much attachment he felt to the books, and how much he valued one in particular, an original copy of Beelzebubs Tales which he had never read, and rescued from the black bags of those to be thrown away, which even charity shops were not interested in - he thought that there is a huge destruction of books going on.
RM described an exercise he has developed to help him wake up. He has been trying to find ways (like seeing how many lamposts he can count while walking before falling asleep), and has worked out a mantra designed to create a rhythm in the mind of awareness and attention: "Every cell of my body glows with attentive awareness - with every step I take my body glows with attentive awareness ...". He has found that his memory has been improving since, and has learnt to recite twelve Shakespeare sonnets. Each sentence has come to feel like a single dictionary entry. He recited one:
Look in thy glass, and tell the face thou viewest
Now is the time that face should form another;
Whose fresh repair if now thou not renewest,
Thou dost beguile the world, unbless some mother,
For where is she so fair whose unear'd womb
Disdains the tillage of thy husbandry?
Or who is he so fond will be the tomb
Of his self-love, to stop posterity?
Thou art thy mother's glass, and she in thee
Calls back the lovely April of her prime:
So thou through windows of thine age shall see
Despite of wrinkles this thy golden time.
But if thou live, remember'd not to be,
Die single, and thine image dies with thee.
D said it reminded him of Gurdjieff's writing in Beelzebub's Tales, and wondered where Shakespeare had come across the ideas.
RM said the sonnets contain Rosicrucian teachings.
M asserted that they and the plays were written by Francis Bacon.
RM said that Bacon could not publish plays under his own name as it would have been considered inappropriate for a senior official to be a playwright.
As so much time had passed in going through the month's experiences, L suggested that a timer system be introduced from next month, five minutes per person, and this was agreed by all present.
The Meeting then turned to reading from Beelzebub's Tales, Chapter I, The Arousing of Thought.
...always and everywhere on the earth...that definite utterance understandable to every even quite illiterate person, which in different epochs has been formulated variously and in our day is formulated in the following words: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Ghost, Amen."
M asked about the meaning of the phrase, saying that he thought the "Holy Ghost" was a reference to Gurdjieff's concept of Third Force.
L said that there is often some thing new to notice when coming back to the text. In this case the phrase "always and everywhere" seems to be an echo of the title "All and Everything" of the collection of books beginning with this paragraph.
M recalled an account of Gurdjieff being asked if anything of substance exists after death. In response Gurdjieff asked if there was anything of substance now.
T described a conversation she had recently heard on a bus. A mother asked her little boy "What do you want to eat?" The boy was not interested in food and asked what he was going to do after she died. This was an aware question, and who is willing to help such a child with thinking about it?
D remembered being a child in an institution, looking at the stars, and wondering what was up there.
RM wondered why the old Beelzebub's Tales edition was being used rather than the newer one, as he remembered Gurdjieff students being enthusiastic about it before publication.
L read the section of the July meeting's account where this was discussed.
RM said he would like to prepare a list of basic principles of Gurdjieff's teachings, and thought this would attract and help new members.
L said there were several informative links on the webpage, and another could be added to link to the list.
Sunday, September 4, 2011
Consciousness
Initially the Meeting considered a phrase used by Gurdjieff early in Beelzebub's Tales, "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost", and what it symbolises.
The discussion then moved to consciousness.
M described consciousness as a particular kind of awareness independent of the mind's usual activities, and suggested that it is experienced by people as awareness of who they are and of what they are doing and for what purpose - a man can observe his own level of conscious awareness with self-observation and consider whether his mental processes are conforming to his best interests. Generally a man can be described as having the possibility of living in four states of consciousness, but he lives mostly in the two lower states: the sleeping state when he is asleep and the waking state when he a little more awake and is able to participate in his usual daily mechanical patterns of behaviour.
The discussion then moved to consciousness.
M described consciousness as a particular kind of awareness independent of the mind's usual activities, and suggested that it is experienced by people as awareness of who they are and of what they are doing and for what purpose - a man can observe his own level of conscious awareness with self-observation and consider whether his mental processes are conforming to his best interests. Generally a man can be described as having the possibility of living in four states of consciousness, but he lives mostly in the two lower states: the sleeping state when he is asleep and the waking state when he a little more awake and is able to participate in his usual daily mechanical patterns of behaviour.
Sunday, August 7, 2011
Ego
The Meeting opened with a discussion of an email received from Colet House about a forthcoming Open Day of the Gurdjieff Movements. "... On the 3rd September 2011 the Study Society at Colet House, which was founded by P.D Ouspensky, is holding a free Open Day of the Gurdjieff Movements in west London. The Movements were originally taught in the 1930’s at Colet House by Mme Ouspensky and other teachers sent by Gurdjieff and have been passed down in a direct line to the present day, so they are an authentic, unbroken line of transmission. This is a unique opportunity to hear a talk about the Movements, see a demonstration and sign up for classes..."
[UPDATE - This event has been cancelled. There will be another opportunity to hear a talk and take part of some of the movements. For further details email katebrass@eggconnect.net.]
"R" said that Mme Ouspensky taught the Movements for many years. It was agreed that it would be an interesting opportunity to witness the Movements at the house long associated with Ouspensky and the Movements. All those interested, whether attendees of the Meetings or readers of this blog, can register.
There was some discussion of the history of Colet House and the Study Society, and RM explained how he reconciled in his mind the models of Gurdjieff and the teachings of the Shankaracharya of North India.
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, moving to a question from the student Kahn, who said "... I have as it were an impulse to succeed in playing my true role in regard to my son or my father ... I saw recently all my body, all my emotions, all my sentiment and my usual desires as that which I had to succeed in killing in me in order to attain birth, and I understood that I would succeed in being what I want to be if I succeeded in making that which I am die." Gurdjieff responded "...Why do you use the word "true"? ... cease saying the word "true". One must not give this value to things."
M remarked on Kahn's use of the word "kill", preferring instead "redirect". "R" said Kahn's usage might have reflected concepts he was familiar with.
The lecture continues with Gurdjieff turning to another student, Simone, asking "You understood? For you also something is opened?" Simone replies: "I feel something in my head now that stays nearly all the time; it is not very strong but it is almost constant, something that makes me see beings and things in a different way." Gurdjieff concludes with "... Little by little everything must be different. You are beginning to have a true view. You had, up to the present, a fantastic point of view."
RM had studied the origin of the term "born again", which he said was not religious but to do with ego.
D commented that M often used the term "One" where he himself would say "I". "R" said that "I" is the preferred usage although we are far from the truth. These remarks reminded M of the work of R D Laing. D and RM were reminded also of the ideas of Assagioli and psychosynthesis.
D turned the discussion to the "economic crunch" and wondered what hope there was. RM thought there was no crisis. L said that the printing of money by governments was akin to false associations of personality, and referred to the works of Ralph Nelson Elliott, who considered economic history as a manifestation of mass psychology which followed fractal patterns.
It was decided to reflect on which lecture to read next during the ensuing month, and attention turned to Beelzebub's Tales, from which the beginning of Chapter 1, The Arousing of Thought, was read.
M queried Gurdjieff's use of the term "the three sexes", and "R" said that it relates to a reference much later in the book.
There being no time left to consider examples of experiences from the previous month, D suggested that in future these be discussed at the beginning of every meeting, and all present agreed.
"R" said that Mme Ouspensky taught the Movements for many years. It was agreed that it would be an interesting opportunity to witness the Movements at the house long associated with Ouspensky and the Movements. All those interested, whether attendees of the Meetings or readers of this blog, can register.
There was some discussion of the history of Colet House and the Study Society, and RM explained how he reconciled in his mind the models of Gurdjieff and the teachings of the Shankaracharya of North India.
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, moving to a question from the student Kahn, who said "... I have as it were an impulse to succeed in playing my true role in regard to my son or my father ... I saw recently all my body, all my emotions, all my sentiment and my usual desires as that which I had to succeed in killing in me in order to attain birth, and I understood that I would succeed in being what I want to be if I succeeded in making that which I am die." Gurdjieff responded "...Why do you use the word "true"? ... cease saying the word "true". One must not give this value to things."
M remarked on Kahn's use of the word "kill", preferring instead "redirect". "R" said Kahn's usage might have reflected concepts he was familiar with.
The lecture continues with Gurdjieff turning to another student, Simone, asking "You understood? For you also something is opened?" Simone replies: "I feel something in my head now that stays nearly all the time; it is not very strong but it is almost constant, something that makes me see beings and things in a different way." Gurdjieff concludes with "... Little by little everything must be different. You are beginning to have a true view. You had, up to the present, a fantastic point of view."
RM had studied the origin of the term "born again", which he said was not religious but to do with ego.
D commented that M often used the term "One" where he himself would say "I". "R" said that "I" is the preferred usage although we are far from the truth. These remarks reminded M of the work of R D Laing. D and RM were reminded also of the ideas of Assagioli and psychosynthesis.
D turned the discussion to the "economic crunch" and wondered what hope there was. RM thought there was no crisis. L said that the printing of money by governments was akin to false associations of personality, and referred to the works of Ralph Nelson Elliott, who considered economic history as a manifestation of mass psychology which followed fractal patterns.
It was decided to reflect on which lecture to read next during the ensuing month, and attention turned to Beelzebub's Tales, from which the beginning of Chapter 1, The Arousing of Thought, was read.
M queried Gurdjieff's use of the term "the three sexes", and "R" said that it relates to a reference much later in the book.
There being no time left to consider examples of experiences from the previous month, D suggested that in future these be discussed at the beginning of every meeting, and all present agreed.
Sunday, July 3, 2011
The Zone
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, with Gurdjieff saying "... you no longer have your associations. ... In a special state when you relax a little, you can remember this feeling and you must seize it." Later, Tracol, a student, says "The strongest feeling of division is when I do it under comfortable conditions". Mme de Salzmann responds, "It is necessary for this to grow in you in these moments. After, little by little, you shall be able to make this state last."
"R" asked what state is being referred to. D put it in the context of sport. Andy Murray had just lost a Wimbledon semi-final. In contrast in his previous match he could not put a foot wrong, he was "in the zone". D found it would sometimes feel like that at the pool table. He referred also to the dancer Nijinsky who thought he was God. T said that sometimes it is very hard to paint but at other times it flows.
The reading continued. Responding to a query from the student Kahn, Gurdjieff says "You cannot yet have a 'true love'. One aspect of 'true love' must be to hate justly, to hate objectively, not the object but its manifestations. ... cease saying the word 'true'. ... You cannot yet love, you can do nothing. You do not yet have the feeling and I have need of you having it."
L said that Gurdjieff may have put a stop to a romance with his comments. "R" said that love is usually limited but that people like drama, and that life without dramas is boring. D said that love among the young is often infatuation. L suggested that the term "falling in love" is pejorative and should perhaps be "ascending in love"; many artists have believed that love should not be controlled by mind, and he quoted John Lennon, "Love is old, love is new. Love is all, love is you." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5qXVODCvC8&NR=1
M brought up Maurice Nicoll's interpretation of the cross, saying that the level of the horizontal bar signifies level of mind, and that if it reaches the top of the cross the symbol changes to the Egyptian tau cross. "R" added that ancient Egypt also had the ankh cross, where a loop, symbolising reincarnation, is above the horizontal bar.
The Meeting moved on to begin reading from Beelzebub's Tales, but it transpired that there were two different editions circulating in the room. It was decided to use the earliest edition available (the later one was not originally intended for publication), and begin again the following month.
There was a little time for those present to recount significant events from the month that had passed.
D had been concerned about his brother, with whom he had had no contact for six weeks. He sent his brother a text message urging him to get in touch. Half an hour later he met his brother in the street. The text message had not been received, as his brother had left his mobile phone at home. L suggested that the mind of D's brother, being a little disturbed, might have been more open.
T had realised that her recent habit of working late was in fact resistance to doing art, a self-sabotage to ensure she was too tired to start painting early. D asked her why she wanted to be tired, but admitted that he will do anything but write, his current excuse being that he needs to move house. L referred to the character Lord Foul in Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books, as epitomising for him the force of resistance to creative art, this force being more powerful than psychology alone. He observed that no sooner was he about to write a note of music, after preparing to work, than the phone would ring. Another time, at the instant he is primed to start work, there might be a noisy disturbance outside.
M had been exhausted following a hospital visit, and had found it necessary to listen to his body and be sensible, not to do too much or walk too far. A diagnosis of his condition had caused him to become more awake.
R has been so busy she had had to resort to microwave cooking. Over the month to come she is determined spend more time on preparing her food.
"R" asked what state is being referred to. D put it in the context of sport. Andy Murray had just lost a Wimbledon semi-final. In contrast in his previous match he could not put a foot wrong, he was "in the zone". D found it would sometimes feel like that at the pool table. He referred also to the dancer Nijinsky who thought he was God. T said that sometimes it is very hard to paint but at other times it flows.
The reading continued. Responding to a query from the student Kahn, Gurdjieff says "You cannot yet have a 'true love'. One aspect of 'true love' must be to hate justly, to hate objectively, not the object but its manifestations. ... cease saying the word 'true'. ... You cannot yet love, you can do nothing. You do not yet have the feeling and I have need of you having it."
L said that Gurdjieff may have put a stop to a romance with his comments. "R" said that love is usually limited but that people like drama, and that life without dramas is boring. D said that love among the young is often infatuation. L suggested that the term "falling in love" is pejorative and should perhaps be "ascending in love"; many artists have believed that love should not be controlled by mind, and he quoted John Lennon, "Love is old, love is new. Love is all, love is you." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5qXVODCvC8&NR=1
M brought up Maurice Nicoll's interpretation of the cross, saying that the level of the horizontal bar signifies level of mind, and that if it reaches the top of the cross the symbol changes to the Egyptian tau cross. "R" added that ancient Egypt also had the ankh cross, where a loop, symbolising reincarnation, is above the horizontal bar.
The Meeting moved on to begin reading from Beelzebub's Tales, but it transpired that there were two different editions circulating in the room. It was decided to use the earliest edition available (the later one was not originally intended for publication), and begin again the following month.
There was a little time for those present to recount significant events from the month that had passed.
D had been concerned about his brother, with whom he had had no contact for six weeks. He sent his brother a text message urging him to get in touch. Half an hour later he met his brother in the street. The text message had not been received, as his brother had left his mobile phone at home. L suggested that the mind of D's brother, being a little disturbed, might have been more open.
T had realised that her recent habit of working late was in fact resistance to doing art, a self-sabotage to ensure she was too tired to start painting early. D asked her why she wanted to be tired, but admitted that he will do anything but write, his current excuse being that he needs to move house. L referred to the character Lord Foul in Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books, as epitomising for him the force of resistance to creative art, this force being more powerful than psychology alone. He observed that no sooner was he about to write a note of music, after preparing to work, than the phone would ring. Another time, at the instant he is primed to start work, there might be a noisy disturbance outside.
M had been exhausted following a hospital visit, and had found it necessary to listen to his body and be sensible, not to do too much or walk too far. A diagnosis of his condition had caused him to become more awake.
R has been so busy she had had to resort to microwave cooking. Over the month to come she is determined spend more time on preparing her food.
Sunday, June 5, 2011
Animals and Humans
At the beginning of the meeting there was a query as to what had been discussed the previous month. It was decided, as a trial, to start by reviewing the account of the previous meeting by going through the entry on the website. While this gave rise to much discussion, it used up a significant amount of time and it was decided in future to suggest that people read through the blog entry from the previous month and if they have any comments to bring them with to the meeting.
It was also decided to begin reading Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, being a seminal work of Gurdjieff. "R" thought Beelzebub's Tales alongside Views from the Real World, are the two books by Gurdjieff that are primary. M said that in his reading of the book, he had found Chapter 39, "The Holy Planet Purgatory", the most significant. (This chapter is the last one of the second book.) "R" recalled that her teacher had said that if you did not read anything else, you should read that section. It was decided to start methodically, the following month, at the beginning of the book. "R" said there are instructions at the start to read it three times, and suggested reading it as fluidly as possible, rather than focusing on discussion, though if things crop up they can be discusssed. It was suggested that the first chapter be read before the next meeting, three times, the first all the way through as if reading a newspaper, the second out loud to oneself, the third with the intention to think about the content.
The issue of Gurdjieff's terminology arose. "R" said that Gurdjieff chose to express himself in terms that the other would be familar with, thus to the scientist Ouspensky he used terms from science like "hydrogens".
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A member of the group, Mechin, recounts how he has been seeing himself in a different light: "... one day in passing before a mirror, I was very surprised to see that I saw myself as a stranger." Gurdjieff responds: "... Your individuality is born. Before you were like an animal without 'I'. Now you have an 'I' and the properties of a man. This exercise has given you these. Before you had no individuality, you were the result of your body, like a dog, a cat or a camel. Now if you have horns, you can see them and be amazed at them.... You are a comrade of Mme Franc."
M said that here Gurdjieff was referring to one becoming a three-brained being - animals are two-brained and plants one-brained.
L said the implication was that Mme Franc's third brain was becoming more active. However could we be sure that animals could not be similarly self-reflective, without using verbal language as humans do - L cited the example of the vegetarian lion which resisted every encouragement to eat meat. http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm.
M referred to reports of hippopotamuses defending animals from attacking crocodiles. (E.g. see video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoP0xSMYcY0.)
L had similarly heard tales of seals or dolphins protecting adrift boats, e.g. Dick van Dyke in 2010 (in this case porpoises) http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/nov/11/dick-van-dyke-porpoises-rescue.
Finally those present reviewed significant, related things which had happened during the month.
For M, this was reading through Volume 1 of Beelzebub's Tales.
R had been focusing on being aware of the body - sitting still in a kneeling chair, being in the body and sensing it.
It was also decided to begin reading Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, being a seminal work of Gurdjieff. "R" thought Beelzebub's Tales alongside Views from the Real World, are the two books by Gurdjieff that are primary. M said that in his reading of the book, he had found Chapter 39, "The Holy Planet Purgatory", the most significant. (This chapter is the last one of the second book.) "R" recalled that her teacher had said that if you did not read anything else, you should read that section. It was decided to start methodically, the following month, at the beginning of the book. "R" said there are instructions at the start to read it three times, and suggested reading it as fluidly as possible, rather than focusing on discussion, though if things crop up they can be discusssed. It was suggested that the first chapter be read before the next meeting, three times, the first all the way through as if reading a newspaper, the second out loud to oneself, the third with the intention to think about the content.
The issue of Gurdjieff's terminology arose. "R" said that Gurdjieff chose to express himself in terms that the other would be familar with, thus to the scientist Ouspensky he used terms from science like "hydrogens".
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A member of the group, Mechin, recounts how he has been seeing himself in a different light: "... one day in passing before a mirror, I was very surprised to see that I saw myself as a stranger." Gurdjieff responds: "... Your individuality is born. Before you were like an animal without 'I'. Now you have an 'I' and the properties of a man. This exercise has given you these. Before you had no individuality, you were the result of your body, like a dog, a cat or a camel. Now if you have horns, you can see them and be amazed at them.... You are a comrade of Mme Franc."
M said that here Gurdjieff was referring to one becoming a three-brained being - animals are two-brained and plants one-brained.
L said the implication was that Mme Franc's third brain was becoming more active. However could we be sure that animals could not be similarly self-reflective, without using verbal language as humans do - L cited the example of the vegetarian lion which resisted every encouragement to eat meat. http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm.
M referred to reports of hippopotamuses defending animals from attacking crocodiles. (E.g. see video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoP0xSMYcY0.)
L had similarly heard tales of seals or dolphins protecting adrift boats, e.g. Dick van Dyke in 2010 (in this case porpoises) http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/nov/11/dick-van-dyke-porpoises-rescue.
Finally those present reviewed significant, related things which had happened during the month.
For M, this was reading through Volume 1 of Beelzebub's Tales.
R had been focusing on being aware of the body - sitting still in a kneeling chair, being in the body and sensing it.
Sunday, May 1, 2011
Division into two
At the beginning of the meeting, M raised comments from Ouspensky about the distinction between morality and conscience, suggesting that morality was culturally relative. L queried whether this idea actually originated from Gurdjieff, arguing that morality is based logically on values which can be held in any culture.
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A questioner, Mme Franc, gives a progress report to Gurdjieff on the use of the exercises he had assigned to the group, and says "I did the two exercises that you had given me during the vacation, the exercise on the division into two and on the sensations of hot, cold, and tears. . . . For the division into two, I cannot say that I have succeeded in doing it, but the work has given me a center of gravity in my head. This has changed many things for me and has allowed me to de-identify myself a little from my body and I can see more clearly in my work. I know better what I am doing and how I must do it. This has changed values." Gurdjieff responds "I already understood that you had a personality. Now you feel in yourself something, a separation. The body is one thing and you are another thing."
M said the "division into two" refers to self observation.
T commented on Gurdjieff's response to the woman's description of de-identifying with her body and feeling her centre of gravity in her head. He was optimistic that the woman had started to feel a separation inside her - her body is one thing she is another thing. He was very positive about this small shift in perception of herself and spoke about needing to nurture this change as if it was a young boy needing good nutrition. T thought that it sounded as significant as a new birth and the baby needed good nourishment from the woman continuing to work in this way on her perception of herself, to enable the baby's life to be sustained and to thrive and to grow.
D recalled techniques from Bioenergetics for pain relief. For example, to think again and again of a colour and shape representing the pain, during which process the pain ebbs.
M had used the technique of imagining what a pain looks like, and that it be put on a passing bus, which is then watched till it goes out of sight - in his experience this has helped a pain go away.
D quoted Roberto Assagioli, the founder of psychosynthesis: "I am not my body".
(In contrast, a tenet of Bioenergetics is that a person is their body.)
M said one can think of any part of the body and put attention on it - the blood will begin to go there. The mind controls the body.
D commented that burn out can lead to ME. As this is an example of the body controlling the mind, L queried if what Gurdjieff says is correct - are we a mind with a body attached or a body with a mind attached?
D commented at length about the first reading's content and D and M had a lengthy exchange, about living in the head and or living in the body and which is in charge. M thought it necessary for the mind to be in charge and D spoke up for the body because the mind becomes too caught up with intellect and imagination and there is a risk of cut off, alienation and breakdown. D spoke about how he had to bring himself back into his body because he had become too detached from it. He gave the example of Jack Kerouac being a brilliant writer but dying from alcohol abuse at 47 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kerouac)
Continuing the reading, Mechin says "I tried to continue the exercise of division into two and, seeing that I could not succeed in it, I thought that this came about because the 'I' in me was not strong enough. . . . as during the vacation I was rather alone in the role that I had to play, I had to play it with my parents and above all my mother, there is where the difficulty arrived. I ascertained that I was completely incapable of playing a role, that it was impossible."
M noted that Mechin is talking about family problems, which particularly requre self-awareness.
D asked if this individuality is that of Jean-Paul Sartre's thinking, referring to his writing about the tree with roots in Nausea. If you are an individual, how do you create your reality?
L said that from Sartre's existentialist position, one can make art as extension of oneself, in this sense extending reality. An artist also has to observe very closely, for example an painter needs to be aware that the sky is not necessarily blue.
D thought it would be good to be at peace in the face of death.
L quoted the other view, from Dylan Thomas: "Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
D recalled another poem by Dylan Thomas, "And death shall have no dominion".
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
Last week D went to Books Etc in the O2 Centre, and picked out a book on The Secret; love and gratitude can heal - are these the same as self awareness? He left the bookshop with these feelings in his consciousness, and found people were more friendly to him, that there had been a change. M replied that self-remembering is a different thing, but they are linked.
L had been on route to a performance of a piece of his whose subtitle included elephants and water. On emerging from the railway station at the destination, he was confronted with a poster for a new movie called "Water from Elephants". How should one respond to such synchronicities and do they reflect any changes in consciousness? D said this had just reminded him of the Welsh composer Paul Mealor who by chance had just had his piece performed at the royal wedding, but there were dangers in seeing too much in coincidences. He recalled a friend who thought a bird flying across the windscreen of a car had some meaning. L mentioned that the word auspicious derives from the ancient and common practice of divination from a study of the behaviour of birds.
M had realised during the week that he wasn't really interested in various things that he thought he had been interested in - this followed from self-awareness exercises.
T had had difficulty, during the month, in maintaining her practice of yoga, such good habits can slip away. D suggested it might help to do hatha yoga in a group. In fact being alone too much is not good, being used in some cases as a punishment (solitary confinement). L mentioned that some hermits and monks deliberately seek out isolation in caves or on mountain tops. D had heard from a monk that some of these are crazy. L cited Leonard Cohen who retreated to a zen monastery for several years. D quoted Jack Kerouac as saying that his experience alone fire watching had turned him to drink. M asked if Jack Kerouac had a purpose. D said that for Leonard Cohen it was burnout, and likewise for Kerouac.
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A questioner, Mme Franc, gives a progress report to Gurdjieff on the use of the exercises he had assigned to the group, and says "I did the two exercises that you had given me during the vacation, the exercise on the division into two and on the sensations of hot, cold, and tears. . . . For the division into two, I cannot say that I have succeeded in doing it, but the work has given me a center of gravity in my head. This has changed many things for me and has allowed me to de-identify myself a little from my body and I can see more clearly in my work. I know better what I am doing and how I must do it. This has changed values." Gurdjieff responds "I already understood that you had a personality. Now you feel in yourself something, a separation. The body is one thing and you are another thing."
M said the "division into two" refers to self observation.
T commented on Gurdjieff's response to the woman's description of de-identifying with her body and feeling her centre of gravity in her head. He was optimistic that the woman had started to feel a separation inside her - her body is one thing she is another thing. He was very positive about this small shift in perception of herself and spoke about needing to nurture this change as if it was a young boy needing good nutrition. T thought that it sounded as significant as a new birth and the baby needed good nourishment from the woman continuing to work in this way on her perception of herself, to enable the baby's life to be sustained and to thrive and to grow.
D recalled techniques from Bioenergetics for pain relief. For example, to think again and again of a colour and shape representing the pain, during which process the pain ebbs.
M had used the technique of imagining what a pain looks like, and that it be put on a passing bus, which is then watched till it goes out of sight - in his experience this has helped a pain go away.
D quoted Roberto Assagioli, the founder of psychosynthesis: "I am not my body".
(In contrast, a tenet of Bioenergetics is that a person is their body.)
M said one can think of any part of the body and put attention on it - the blood will begin to go there. The mind controls the body.
D commented that burn out can lead to ME. As this is an example of the body controlling the mind, L queried if what Gurdjieff says is correct - are we a mind with a body attached or a body with a mind attached?
D commented at length about the first reading's content and D and M had a lengthy exchange, about living in the head and or living in the body and which is in charge. M thought it necessary for the mind to be in charge and D spoke up for the body because the mind becomes too caught up with intellect and imagination and there is a risk of cut off, alienation and breakdown. D spoke about how he had to bring himself back into his body because he had become too detached from it. He gave the example of Jack Kerouac being a brilliant writer but dying from alcohol abuse at 47 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kerouac)
Continuing the reading, Mechin says "I tried to continue the exercise of division into two and, seeing that I could not succeed in it, I thought that this came about because the 'I' in me was not strong enough. . . . as during the vacation I was rather alone in the role that I had to play, I had to play it with my parents and above all my mother, there is where the difficulty arrived. I ascertained that I was completely incapable of playing a role, that it was impossible."
M noted that Mechin is talking about family problems, which particularly requre self-awareness.
D asked if this individuality is that of Jean-Paul Sartre's thinking, referring to his writing about the tree with roots in Nausea. If you are an individual, how do you create your reality?
L said that from Sartre's existentialist position, one can make art as extension of oneself, in this sense extending reality. An artist also has to observe very closely, for example an painter needs to be aware that the sky is not necessarily blue.
D thought it would be good to be at peace in the face of death.
L quoted the other view, from Dylan Thomas: "Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
D recalled another poem by Dylan Thomas, "And death shall have no dominion".
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
Last week D went to Books Etc in the O2 Centre, and picked out a book on The Secret; love and gratitude can heal - are these the same as self awareness? He left the bookshop with these feelings in his consciousness, and found people were more friendly to him, that there had been a change. M replied that self-remembering is a different thing, but they are linked.
L had been on route to a performance of a piece of his whose subtitle included elephants and water. On emerging from the railway station at the destination, he was confronted with a poster for a new movie called "Water from Elephants". How should one respond to such synchronicities and do they reflect any changes in consciousness? D said this had just reminded him of the Welsh composer Paul Mealor who by chance had just had his piece performed at the royal wedding, but there were dangers in seeing too much in coincidences. He recalled a friend who thought a bird flying across the windscreen of a car had some meaning. L mentioned that the word auspicious derives from the ancient and common practice of divination from a study of the behaviour of birds.
M had realised during the week that he wasn't really interested in various things that he thought he had been interested in - this followed from self-awareness exercises.
T had had difficulty, during the month, in maintaining her practice of yoga, such good habits can slip away. D suggested it might help to do hatha yoga in a group. In fact being alone too much is not good, being used in some cases as a punishment (solitary confinement). L mentioned that some hermits and monks deliberately seek out isolation in caves or on mountain tops. D had heard from a monk that some of these are crazy. L cited Leonard Cohen who retreated to a zen monastery for several years. D quoted Jack Kerouac as saying that his experience alone fire watching had turned him to drink. M asked if Jack Kerouac had a purpose. D said that for Leonard Cohen it was burnout, and likewise for Kerouac.
Sunday, April 3, 2011
Associations and Distractions
The meeting continued reading the second lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 22 July, 1943. A questionner, Ansi, said, in bewilderment " . . . if something wounds me, instead of being angry or offended, I am indifferent.". Gurdjieff responded: "Before, you had your own love. It is cheap, it is an ordinary thing; now you have understood it. You see that it is idiotic, a nullity, an excrement; before, you did not know it. Today you see it; you are not angry. You see the manifestations of excrement. If it is like this, I am very content. Without wanting it, without knowing it, you have already advanced objectively, mechanically advanced. Soon, you can be our estimable comrade."
L suggested here that Gurdjieff was referring to the destruction of ego, as those with a sense of self-importance are more vulnerable to criticism. Also a mind adrift in associative thought is rather like one who dreams.
M suggested the notion that while people sleep and dream, their thoughts are harvested.
L asked what Gurdjieff meant by it being important to have an aim, saying that not having one is similar to having an unfocused mind and being influenced by associative thoughts.
"R" gave the example of a soldier, who through the influence of others might find himself on foreign soil fighting in an unexpected war.
L remarked how even in an advanced country like the UK, almost at the drop of a hat, the government can become involved in a war.
T said that the phenomenon of the successful military operation is an example of an outward manifestation of the successful internal organisation of the individual, the body-mind system. In the successful military operaton the generals direct proceedings and the soldiers carry out the instructions. In the individual, if you have a clear aim, your body-mind can carry out the task set it. The operations are unsuccessful for the military or the individual if the aims are unclear or confusing or if there is dissent in the ranks.
"R" considered the possibility that in some people there may be an inbuilt destiny which may or may not be followed, and mentioned a comment by Ouspensky in The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution that there is only a limited amount of information. It was the first book on the Work she read, and on reading that passage she thought that if the amount was indeed limited, she wanted some of that information.
L mentioned the belief in the "original instructions" of native American cultures, that everything is made with a preordained path to follow.
Discussion continued on the challenge of remaining focused. M said he has found that when he is experiencing negative thoughts he tends to substitute positive thoughts and finds this helpful as the negative thoughts are pushed from their prominent position in his mind. He said the part of the mind doing this is what Gurdjieff referred to as the "silent witness".
Reading on, Gurjieff described the flow of background thoughts as like the circulation of blood in that it is an automatic process which should not distract from an aim.
M said that he has a project to clear fifty files and so far has worked through one.
L said it important to work from a list, but that the size of the list should be limited. One way to do this is to date every task that goes on the list, and to remove every day those that have been there for more than a month.
T gave the example of life drawing. The mark making of an observational drawing is the response to the reality of the experience of seeing the human being in front of the artist. This experience informs the lines and shading. If someone looks and then spends a long time drawing, looking at the paper, one wonders what the artist is drawing. The inpact of the real life experience to the drawing reduces the longer the pause between the looking and the drawing. The mind begins to add marks it thinks should be there to express the phenomena of the model but by this time the mind is filling in with the stuff of assumptions as to what the eye is seeing. The practice is to discipline the eye to be looking more than drawing.
Continuing the reading, Gurdjieff expands on the subject, saying "Under all conditions, in all political situations, man must educate his body to be submissive to him . . . You understand what is meant by intelligent? Intelligent means he who directs his body. If the body directs , you are a nullity, a peasant - if you direct your body you are intelligent. Thus, choose what you want. Intelligent or peasant? . . . The more you want to direct your body, the more it opposes you. And in resisting you, the more strength it gives you."
L thought that an alternative view was that the mind and body form a unit, and organism. Thus if a part of the body aches, rather that ignore it, it is information leading to a habitual posture which is the result of thoughts. Changing the thoughts might help solve the pain, but ignoring the pain might lead to a problem becoming worse.
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
T made a choice en route to work one morning, at the fork in the road: to arrive early or to go via the sweet shop to satisfy hunger for something sweet inside. The latter choice won, and she arrived at work late. She observed that there was a process of diversion from the intention coming from another source of feeling sorry for herself and wanting a treat, a reward; she saw there was choice and made the choice and experienced the real consequences of that choice. She chose the route to the chocolate croissant! The reality of the sweet croissant was that it was tough and dry and she threw it into the park for the birds!
M spoke of waking and getting up at the same time following intention and will rather than instinctive desire to stay in the warm and comfortable bed; seeing the two routes and taking the "getting up" route and feeling good about this. He now has developed this habit and is consciously aware that it is a choice each time.
R is visiting her mother in the nursing home and read her a lecture in German from a professor in her mother's subject. She had spoken to one of her teachers who had recommended being aware of a part of the body while doing a habitual task. She found that reading to her mother a text in German, an unfamiliar but phonetic language, enabled her to be present in her body - the foreign-ness helped her as she was unable to get involved in the content of the paper. She read for two periods of 2 hours and her mother's response was a genuine "very interesting".
L has been getting up very early to do writing, but is sometimes getting distracted by other things before sitting down to this daily task.
L suggested here that Gurdjieff was referring to the destruction of ego, as those with a sense of self-importance are more vulnerable to criticism. Also a mind adrift in associative thought is rather like one who dreams.
M suggested the notion that while people sleep and dream, their thoughts are harvested.
L asked what Gurdjieff meant by it being important to have an aim, saying that not having one is similar to having an unfocused mind and being influenced by associative thoughts.
"R" gave the example of a soldier, who through the influence of others might find himself on foreign soil fighting in an unexpected war.
L remarked how even in an advanced country like the UK, almost at the drop of a hat, the government can become involved in a war.
T said that the phenomenon of the successful military operation is an example of an outward manifestation of the successful internal organisation of the individual, the body-mind system. In the successful military operaton the generals direct proceedings and the soldiers carry out the instructions. In the individual, if you have a clear aim, your body-mind can carry out the task set it. The operations are unsuccessful for the military or the individual if the aims are unclear or confusing or if there is dissent in the ranks.
"R" considered the possibility that in some people there may be an inbuilt destiny which may or may not be followed, and mentioned a comment by Ouspensky in The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution that there is only a limited amount of information. It was the first book on the Work she read, and on reading that passage she thought that if the amount was indeed limited, she wanted some of that information.
L mentioned the belief in the "original instructions" of native American cultures, that everything is made with a preordained path to follow.
Discussion continued on the challenge of remaining focused. M said he has found that when he is experiencing negative thoughts he tends to substitute positive thoughts and finds this helpful as the negative thoughts are pushed from their prominent position in his mind. He said the part of the mind doing this is what Gurdjieff referred to as the "silent witness".
Reading on, Gurjieff described the flow of background thoughts as like the circulation of blood in that it is an automatic process which should not distract from an aim.
M said that he has a project to clear fifty files and so far has worked through one.
L said it important to work from a list, but that the size of the list should be limited. One way to do this is to date every task that goes on the list, and to remove every day those that have been there for more than a month.
T gave the example of life drawing. The mark making of an observational drawing is the response to the reality of the experience of seeing the human being in front of the artist. This experience informs the lines and shading. If someone looks and then spends a long time drawing, looking at the paper, one wonders what the artist is drawing. The inpact of the real life experience to the drawing reduces the longer the pause between the looking and the drawing. The mind begins to add marks it thinks should be there to express the phenomena of the model but by this time the mind is filling in with the stuff of assumptions as to what the eye is seeing. The practice is to discipline the eye to be looking more than drawing.
Continuing the reading, Gurdjieff expands on the subject, saying "Under all conditions, in all political situations, man must educate his body to be submissive to him . . . You understand what is meant by intelligent? Intelligent means he who directs his body. If the body directs , you are a nullity, a peasant - if you direct your body you are intelligent. Thus, choose what you want. Intelligent or peasant? . . . The more you want to direct your body, the more it opposes you. And in resisting you, the more strength it gives you."
L thought that an alternative view was that the mind and body form a unit, and organism. Thus if a part of the body aches, rather that ignore it, it is information leading to a habitual posture which is the result of thoughts. Changing the thoughts might help solve the pain, but ignoring the pain might lead to a problem becoming worse.
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
T made a choice en route to work one morning, at the fork in the road: to arrive early or to go via the sweet shop to satisfy hunger for something sweet inside. The latter choice won, and she arrived at work late. She observed that there was a process of diversion from the intention coming from another source of feeling sorry for herself and wanting a treat, a reward; she saw there was choice and made the choice and experienced the real consequences of that choice. She chose the route to the chocolate croissant! The reality of the sweet croissant was that it was tough and dry and she threw it into the park for the birds!
M spoke of waking and getting up at the same time following intention and will rather than instinctive desire to stay in the warm and comfortable bed; seeing the two routes and taking the "getting up" route and feeling good about this. He now has developed this habit and is consciously aware that it is a choice each time.
R is visiting her mother in the nursing home and read her a lecture in German from a professor in her mother's subject. She had spoken to one of her teachers who had recommended being aware of a part of the body while doing a habitual task. She found that reading to her mother a text in German, an unfamiliar but phonetic language, enabled her to be present in her body - the foreign-ness helped her as she was unable to get involved in the content of the paper. She read for two periods of 2 hours and her mother's response was a genuine "very interesting".
L has been getting up very early to do writing, but is sometimes getting distracted by other things before sitting down to this daily task.
Sunday, March 6, 2011
Distraction, effort and emotion.
The meeting started with a reading from the second lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 22 July, 1943, in which a questioner, Simone, laments the loss of the restlessness which had mostly passed since she began the Work. Gurdjieff responded: "... you have the taste for real work. You must realize it in your ordinary life. I am - always: I-am. Never forget. Little by little your 'I' shall make a contact with your essence. It is necessary to repeat it many times."
L observed that G appeared to be advocating the use of restlessness rather than seeking to quell it as does Buddhism.
M quoted a phrase "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ... love under will". An internet search established this was by Alastair Crowley.
Further in the reading, a questioner asks: "I was exhausted by my negative emotions even organically. Today, I have never felt so well, so animated." Gurdjieff responds: "Never have you had, previously, any liquid silver. You must feel that you have today some liquid silver."
D asked "what is liquid silver?" "R" thought that liquid silver might be a metaphor from Alchemy rather than a reference to the popular remedy of the time. L found that silver was symbolic of Artemis or Diana, the huntress of mythology, an allusion to wild nature. "R" commented on the association of Liquid and Silver with money as energy.
Later Gurdjieff states: " . . . man is not a pig, he cannot burst when he eats. The pig has a normal stomach; it cannot eat more than its stomach permits; it would burst; man is a scoundrel; he has a stomach of india-rubber. He is worse than the pig; he gulps down, he gulps down without ever bursting." There was some discussion of what this means.
D recounted a legend of a the self-discipline of a Zen master (from www.spiritual-short-stories.com):
During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was.
When he wasn't treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. "You fool," he shouted as he reached for his sword, "don't you realize you are standing before a man who could run you through without blinking an eye!" But despite the threat, the master seemed unmoved.
"And do you realize," the master replied calmly, "that you are standing before a man who can be run through without blinking an eye?"
At the end of the meeting each person commented on one example from their experience since the last meeting which may relate to the texts read.
D gave an example of his experience of reading an Ivan Turgenev novel and the content triggering a memory of a disturbing experience with a colleague that D still felt was unresolved. This association became the focus of D's attention and he described feeling the disturbance all over again instead of being able to read the book he wished to read. He became aware of this distraction at the time and struggled to guide himself back to this task.
L said that while experiencing symptoms of a cold, he paid attention to his body considering it as a separate intelligent entity, asking what its state was, and that this led to a reduction of symptoms.
T gave an example of restlessness and agitation after a day at work and then being in the stimulating environment of a busy bus in rush hour. What to do for the duration? In the past she has read the paper and become more restless and agitated by the content of the paper. This time she made a deliberate attempt to shut down attention to the external stimuli by closing her eyes and staying still and meditating for half an hour.After so doing, she did feel a change of state away from restlessness to a more focused state and felt more energised.
"R" spoke of a change of circumstance for her mother, who is agitated about her own suffering and her loss of capacity to be independent. It is on-going work to be with her and attentive to her resistance to her situation.
M said that he had been experiencing negative emotions and through becoming aware of them and attending to them he moved himself away from the negative to more positive thoughts.
L observed that G appeared to be advocating the use of restlessness rather than seeking to quell it as does Buddhism.
M quoted a phrase "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ... love under will". An internet search established this was by Alastair Crowley.
Further in the reading, a questioner asks: "I was exhausted by my negative emotions even organically. Today, I have never felt so well, so animated." Gurdjieff responds: "Never have you had, previously, any liquid silver. You must feel that you have today some liquid silver."
D asked "what is liquid silver?" "R" thought that liquid silver might be a metaphor from Alchemy rather than a reference to the popular remedy of the time. L found that silver was symbolic of Artemis or Diana, the huntress of mythology, an allusion to wild nature. "R" commented on the association of Liquid and Silver with money as energy.
Later Gurdjieff states: " . . . man is not a pig, he cannot burst when he eats. The pig has a normal stomach; it cannot eat more than its stomach permits; it would burst; man is a scoundrel; he has a stomach of india-rubber. He is worse than the pig; he gulps down, he gulps down without ever bursting." There was some discussion of what this means.
D recounted a legend of a the self-discipline of a Zen master (from www.spiritual-short-stories.com):
During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was.
When he wasn't treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. "You fool," he shouted as he reached for his sword, "don't you realize you are standing before a man who could run you through without blinking an eye!" But despite the threat, the master seemed unmoved.
"And do you realize," the master replied calmly, "that you are standing before a man who can be run through without blinking an eye?"
At the end of the meeting each person commented on one example from their experience since the last meeting which may relate to the texts read.
D gave an example of his experience of reading an Ivan Turgenev novel and the content triggering a memory of a disturbing experience with a colleague that D still felt was unresolved. This association became the focus of D's attention and he described feeling the disturbance all over again instead of being able to read the book he wished to read. He became aware of this distraction at the time and struggled to guide himself back to this task.
L said that while experiencing symptoms of a cold, he paid attention to his body considering it as a separate intelligent entity, asking what its state was, and that this led to a reduction of symptoms.
T gave an example of restlessness and agitation after a day at work and then being in the stimulating environment of a busy bus in rush hour. What to do for the duration? In the past she has read the paper and become more restless and agitated by the content of the paper. This time she made a deliberate attempt to shut down attention to the external stimuli by closing her eyes and staying still and meditating for half an hour.After so doing, she did feel a change of state away from restlessness to a more focused state and felt more energised.
"R" spoke of a change of circumstance for her mother, who is agitated about her own suffering and her loss of capacity to be independent. It is on-going work to be with her and attentive to her resistance to her situation.
M said that he had been experiencing negative emotions and through becoming aware of them and attending to them he moved himself away from the negative to more positive thoughts.
Sunday, February 6, 2011
Sacrificing suffering
The meeting started with a reading from the first lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 8 April, 1943, in which the second question addressed to Gurdjieff was how to understand the words "sacrifice thy suffering". Drawing on an earlier talk, Gurdjieff replied: "Sacrifice your suffering for your neighbor, your voluntary suffering, not for yourself, but for others. (This rule used to form part of the oath pronounced formerly by doctors when they were astrologers and a long time ago when they had to promise to sacrifice their sleep, their fatigue, their suffering, for others.)"
He then went on to talk of three excrements of which the third is "formed in the head; it is rubbish of the food impressions, and the wastes accumulate in the brain. (The physician ignores it, just as he ignores the important role of the appendix in digestion, and rejects it as wastes.)"
A discussion followed the reading. "R" said that by the "third excrement", Gurdjieff was referring to more than a wandering mind - it can elaborated through looking at diagrams in the literature of the Work.
Moving from the reference to digestion, the issue of vegetarianism was addressed. R said that his teacher, the Swami, and Khalil Gibran, said there was no spiritual need to be a vegetarian. However R said he would be unable to eat a dolphin, as dolphins were very intelligent. L asked where one would draw the line between animals one could and could not eat, and suggested it was cultural. None present would want to eat a cat, although they are eaten in other parts of the world.
Following on the plan outlined in the December meeting, the participants, in turn, presented relevant experiences from the previous month. T spoke of how life drawing helps focusing, and is very humbling. L mentioned how ego undermines art and its administration.
He then went on to talk of three excrements of which the third is "formed in the head; it is rubbish of the food impressions, and the wastes accumulate in the brain. (The physician ignores it, just as he ignores the important role of the appendix in digestion, and rejects it as wastes.)"
A discussion followed the reading. "R" said that by the "third excrement", Gurdjieff was referring to more than a wandering mind - it can elaborated through looking at diagrams in the literature of the Work.
Moving from the reference to digestion, the issue of vegetarianism was addressed. R said that his teacher, the Swami, and Khalil Gibran, said there was no spiritual need to be a vegetarian. However R said he would be unable to eat a dolphin, as dolphins were very intelligent. L asked where one would draw the line between animals one could and could not eat, and suggested it was cultural. None present would want to eat a cat, although they are eaten in other parts of the world.
Following on the plan outlined in the December meeting, the participants, in turn, presented relevant experiences from the previous month. T spoke of how life drawing helps focusing, and is very humbling. L mentioned how ego undermines art and its administration.
Sunday, January 2, 2011
Attention and Coincidence
The meeting started with a reading from the lecture of December 9, 1930 in New York, as transcribed in Views from the Real World, on the subject of Attention, in which Gurdjieff says: "There is no attention in people. You must aim to acquire this. Self-observation is only possible after acquiring attention. Start on small things." He goes on to to suggest trying, at first, to stop "nervous and restless movements . . . With these restless movements you cannot be anything. The first thing for you to do is to stop these movements. Make this your aim, your God. Even get your family to help you. Only after this, you can perhaps gain attention. This is an example of doing."
(Read more on this from the book itself, which is available from Amazon.)
A discussion followed, on the role of coincidence in life, and M explained how he thought a set of coincidences that led to him moving to Africa earlier in life were due to the sensitivity he had acquired through sustained work on himself.
(Read more on this from the book itself, which is available from Amazon.)
A discussion followed, on the role of coincidence in life, and M explained how he thought a set of coincidences that led to him moving to Africa earlier in life were due to the sensitivity he had acquired through sustained work on himself.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
