Challenge
When you notice someone charismatic, consider how you are affected, and what may be their motivation. Move your big toes up and down.
CHALLENGE ◆ DISCUSS ◆ BEELZEBUB'S TALES
First Sunday of the month
in-person
9 to 10:30am Fee: £15
More info:
thework@gurdjieffmeetings.com
When you notice someone charismatic, consider how you are affected, and what may be their motivation. Move your big toes up and down.
Experiences
L had dreamt of guiding a young American woman through London, describing a piano-shaped cinema, now demolished. She was indifferent, and if anything, annoyed. This led him to realise his role was not to seek shared enthusiasm but to create authentically. In another dream, he was discussing the ‘Four Principles’. He remembered Covey had seven and subsequently found multiple sets of principles in Mormon teachings.
T had dreamt of a criminal man in power who executed those who knew his crimes. She described a horrific scene where he came across a line of people sitting, and shot one at point-blank range, his head collapsing as if swallowing the bullet. This evoked reflections on the line of defenceless people who sat knowing the truth but were powerless to act. She stretched out her arms and this action brought to mind the sculpture of the Angel of the North, symbolising full embrace and openness, contrasting the violence she witnessed in the dream. She also reflected on V, a rigid and emotionally closed individual, unable to progress in playing a musical instrument, due to a lack of humility. She noted that true mastery in any art demands continuous striving and vulnerability, traits that V had rejected in favour of avoiding this challenge and taking up control over others, in other areas of life.
J had recalled the challenge on one occasion upon waking, and stretched his arms - but was then unable to remember his dream. This set him reflecting about forgetting dreams, which he likened to former incarnations. He reasoned that just as dreams can slip away despite effort, past existences might similarly fade from memory.
Responses
N noted the rise in political violence and unrest, emphasizing the dangers of anarchy and the pressures individuals face under systems of control. He reflected on how fear and violence have become increasingly visible in societal structures, leading to a climate of uncertainty and suppression.
Passage
all the sacred data put in by Great Nature Herself for forming in them their real being-consciousness become isolated and remain during the entire period of their existence in their almost primitive state, ...
Although such a ‘localization’ of accidentally perceived ‘impressions’ is found in them and although they are aware of its action, yet, in respect of any functioning inherent in their planetary body as well as in respect of the acquisition in their common presence of Objective-Reason, it plays no part.
All these impressions, intentionally or accidentally perceived, from which the said localizations are formed ought to be in them only as material for confrontative logic for that real being-consciousness which they should have in themselves, ...
Discussion
N said the five senses were not enough to acquire objective reason. T said that objective reason wins, but were we not utterly subjective? N said that for most of the time, we were living in subjective reason. Gurdjieff, all the time, was stressing objectivity and objective reason. N said he thought we found it very hard to pronounce objective truths or objective beauty. We may see it once in a while, like when walking into a Gothic cathedral, when you will for a moment have an experience of objective beauty. T said that through creativity there might be some deep connection with something that was outside of us, and it gets through to us.
Passage
of at least adapting their famous education to the said subconsciousness of their offspring, but that they always and in everything intentionally assist every one of the rising generation to perceive impressions only from the abnormally artificial, then thanks only to this, when every one of them reaches the age of a responsible being all his being-judgments and all his deductions from them are always purely peculiarly-subjective in him and have no connection not only with the genuine being-impulses arising also in him, but also neither with those general cosmic lawful phenomena, to sense which by Reason is proper to every three-brained being ...
Discussion
J said we acquire many concepts externally, which may not originate from within ourselves, suggesting these are artificial constructs rather than genuine impulses.
N thought the text contained a message that we did not grasp objective reason, and that Gurdjieff placed objective reason as a high-level goal for humanity.
Experiences
L had become aware, one evening, that he had been pecking at his food over supper. When he chewed more slowly, he felt calmer. Generally, he had observed that slowing down brought a feeling of calmness. Recently, he had acquired a virtual reality headset and found that when he felt distracted or busy, putting it on and entering a peaceful natural environment had helped him appreciate the calmness real nature can provide.
Responses
T was intrigued by L’s mention of virtual reality as a tool for appreciating nature. She had initially viewed it as unnatural, but could now reconsider it, as if VR can help one appreciate nature more deeply, it might enhance the real-world experience of being in nature.
Passage
And all cosmic truths usually become known to all on these planets, thanks to the fact that the beings of the given planet who by their conscious labors learn some truth or other share it with other beings of their planet, and in this way all the cosmic truths gradually become known by all the beings of the given planet without any distinction.
Thanks to this sacred process, intentionally actualized by our ALL-FORESEEING COMMON ENDLESS FATHER, it is foreseen that in the three-brained beings of the given planet, during the process in their presences of the fundamental cosmic holy law of Triamazikamno, the superfluity of its third holy force thereby obtained, namely, the force of the ‘sacred reconciling,’ should by itself crystallize data in them for engendering that something which is what is called ‘being-Egoaitoorassian-will.’
Discussion
N compared the sharing of cosmic truths to sharing scientific advancements, though in the case of modern science complications had arisen, notably because of quantum mechanics, in the pursuit of a unified cosmic understanding.
L supported the idea that over time, planets and life forms naturally progressed toward harmony and consciousness.
T commented on the uniqueness of Earth’s development, reflecting the special condition mentioned in the extract. N thought likewise that the Earth’s conditions had been absolutely right for fostering human evolution.
Passage
And the second fact ... they intentionally try by every kind of means, for the purpose of making them respond to these abnormal conditions round them, to fix in their ‘logicnestarian-localizations’ as many impressions as possible obtained exclusively only from such artificial perceptions as are again due to the results of their abnormal existence—which maleficent action of theirs towards their offspring they call ‘education’ ... and the totality of these artificial perceptions is then perceived by them, owing to their naïvete, as their real ‘consciousness.’ But as for the sacred data for genuine being-consciousness put into them by Great Nature ... which engender in them the genuine sacred being-impulses of ‘faith,’ ‘hope,’ ‘love,’ and ‘conscience’—these data, becoming gradually also isolated and being left to themselves, evolve independently of the intentions of the responsible beings, and of course also independently of the bearers of them themselves, and come to be regarded as what is called the ‘subconsciousness.’
Discussion
N said Gurdjieff was trying to explain why humanity was in its current state of artificial consciousness. We were not allowed our any other because education put us in the wrong place, and we just then followed what our parents and teachers told us. Gurdjieff was suggesting that true responsibility and the more authentic aspects of human nature resided deep within the subconscious.
Experiences
A few days before, L had met a disabled man whilst walking home, who asked for help carrying a guitar to a higher floor. On a previous occasion, this man, who was of intense character, had said he recognised L from hundreds of years before, though L had no recollection of this. L inwardly spoke to his late father. Later, on a walk to see the sunset, L noticed a banner reading “Sunset Club” and saw a group gathered there. A Google search revealed the club posed questions to prompt social interaction, including one about speaking to the dead. This synchronicity seemed allied to the challenge.
N had been saddened by the recent death of French actor Alain Delon, whom N had admired for his intensity in acting and business success, despite a difficult childhood and challenges in his personal life. His ability to maintain a striking presence throughout his life stood out. N had planned to mention Delon at a talk, but an earlier speaker made exactly the point that N was planning to make, that people are their own brand. N felt the timing was extraordinarily synchronistic.
T had noticed people gazing at their phones intently on the train, and she in turn looked out more intently out of the window at the beautiful sunset, which nobody else saw. She had become aware of the contrast between light and shadow, noting how the darks seemed darker, and the lights brighter. The sharpness of the shadows had left a visual memory, with distinct squares of shadow standing out in her recollection.
Responses
L found the synchronicity in N’s experience interesting, particularly the notion that thoughts might be floating around. L referenced the philosopher Gad Saad, who discusses a similar concept in his book The Parasitic Mind. According to Saad, beliefs can spread like diseases, existing independently of individuals.
Passage
... thanks to the fact that at this period most of the learned beings there had already become learned beings of new formation they sat upon this new revival so firmly that before the poor thing had time to develop, it soon found its way into their common what is called ‘rubbish heap.’ ...
This particularity of the learned beings of the Earth of new formation is called 'pecking to death'.
Discussion
N said that sometimes new ideas got "pecked to death", but more often new things never come about because people got too much invested in the past.
Passage
of new formation had in general become mechanized to do, he was, according to the custom there, very meticulously ‘pecked to death.’
For instance, all the books now existing there on the question of this hypnotism—and of such books there are thousands there—always begin by saying that this Mesmer was nothing more nor less than a rogue with an itching palm and a charlatan of the first water, but that our ‘honest’ and ‘great’ learned beings very soon saw through him and prevented his doing any kind of mischief.
The more the learned beings of recent times of this peculiar planet are themselves personally, in the sense of ‘idiotism,’ ‘squared,’ the more they criticize Mesmer and say or write concerning him every possible kind of absurdity to bring him into contempt...
Discussion
T drew a parallel to how Elon Musk was facing similar public scrutiny, noting that some individuals today were being “pecked to death” in various ways for expressing ideas that governments might not be sympathetic to.
Passage
As this Frenchman also made practical experiments, not in the usual fashion there, for the elucidation of the details of his discovery, other contemporary learned beings thereupon also manifested toward him that same particularity of theirs—‘to peck him to death.’
This terrible disease is called there ‘cancer.’
...there will never proceed in the presences of the three-brained beings of this ill-fated planet Earth of yours what is called the sacred ‘Antkooano,’...
that process of perfecting the Objective-Reason ...
As a rule, everywhere on those planets of our Great Universe upon which three-brained beings breed, the perfecting of Objective-Reason can proceed in them only from personal conscious labors and intentional sufferings.
Discussion
T suggested that cancer could be a metaphor for obstruction and internal decay within systems that resist innovation. N said similarly it brought to mind systems which forght themselves, and L gave the example of ever higher taxation to prevent change to a status quo, which then became more expensive.
Experiences
T had come across a link to the top ten art colleges in the UK, but none of them included life drawing, or any reference to the art and science of drawing and painting. It was so shocking, she did the air quotes gesture and then considered what she had just read, and the true depiction of shadow.
From Course Overview 2024-25 Central Saint Martins BA (Hons) Fine Art |
N had seen someone recently in the street, but could not remember who it was. It was only later that he remembered it was a former collegue, who had aged. A week or so later, N had got a message that the person had died. He went to the funeral, and got talking to someone there. It had been a brain tumour.
L had gone to a pub called the Elephant Inn to meet some old friends. The pub had formerly been called the Moss Hall Tavern, which related to local history, and there was no reason, as far as he knew, for the name change, and he felt sad about that. He forgot to verbalise. He looked at shadows and noticed that the edges of the shadows were not well defined, and liable to shift.
Responses
Responding to N, L said that his meeting with friends, planned months before, had been reduced in number. One had been diagnosed with a brain tumour and was already in palliative care. Since the gathering, this old friend had passed away and L had attended the funeral two days before. L recounted that the day before the funeral, a musician had sent a message containing a rendition of the second movement of Shostakovich's second piano concerto. It was a synchronicity that this same piece was the entrance music at the service. (Later in the meeting, while this was being discussed, there was the clatter of hooves outside which presages a cortege.)
Passage
the psyche of these three-brained beings who have taken your fancy and who breed on the planet Earth has finally become such a unique phenomenon.
“This psychic particularity, namely, of falling into a ‘hypnotic state,’ is, as I have already said, inherent to the three-brained beings only of this planet of yours, and one can therefore say that if they did not exist, then in all our Great Universe there would not exist in general even a being-notion of ‘hypnotism.’
Discussion
T wondered if this meant that uniquely on our planet, we were all in a hypnotic state continually, whereas all other planets were conscious.
Experiences
Following a doctor's appointment, which focused on the importance of weight loss to reduce blood pressure, N had decided to change his diet, replacing morning croissants with apples and integrating more fruit, and having a light meal in the evening. This had led to noticeable weight loss and improved well-being. He had also switched to decaf coffee and tea. He was feeling optimistic about the positive impact from these changes.
L had often felt tired after breakfast, suspecting it was due to carbohydrates. He reduced cereal intake. Additionally, he usually took multivitamins and vitamin C but questioned their long-term benefits. He had become more aware of coffee consumption, noting that drinking it too early could interfere with the body's natural cortisol development. He decided to wait an hour after waking before having coffee and had shifted his caffeine intake to mid to late morning to avoid disturbing his sleep. These changes had possibly been beneficial.
J noted that the question was in two parts: how good it was for you, and how it made you feel. He had done some research into it, and quite liked falafel. Apparently it had a lot of protein with it, and potassium, with quite a bit of iron. On the downside there were saturated fats. He thought it was not short term; it was long term. You didn't feel very differently, but the long term effects, he thought, were probably beneficial. So it was more about a lifestyle than a particular meal.
T had taken a tangy vitamin tablet daily to ensure sufficient vitamin C intake but had concerns about unwanted ingredients and extracted chemicals. Her trust in pharmaceuticals was low, and she felt uneasy about taking the tablet every morning. She decided to stop, worrying about vitamin C deficiency. This fear affected her emotions and drained her adrenaline. She learned that foods like stone fruits, blackberries, coconut, prunes, bok choy, green bell peppers, sweet corn, eggplant, and turnips naturally contain sorbitol, an ingredient in the tablet. Despite understanding the natural sources, she had found it hard to integrate the challenge.
Responses
Responding to N, T recommended a podcast featuring Dr. Philip Avandia, a heart surgeon emphasizing metabolic health and the impact of processed foods on obesity and heart disease.
Passage
In the hotel where we had the place of our existence, next to my room, or as is said there in the ‘number’ next to mine, there existed a very sympathetic pair of beings who had only recently completed the sacrament of the Union of the Active with the Passive for the purpose of serving the Great All-Universal Trogoautoegocratic process for the prolongation of their generation, or, as they themselves would say, had ‘been married,’ and they were still considered ‘newlywed.’
Discussion
N thought this way of putting it suggested that beings on Earth were created for bigger purposes than might be apparent.
Passage
I instantly ran to them and it turned out there, that ‘himself' was not at home, for on that very day he had had to go off somewhere; and during this time she had felt faint and, almost without consciousness, had instinctively rapped on my wall.
Discussion
T thought this couild be a metaphor for the Work. L added there was also the connotation of something new.
Experiences
N had spent time noticing his cravings over the month. He had felt a strong temptation towards chocolate, particularly around four o'clock each day. This craving had frustrated him when there was no chocolate available. He had wondered if it was a physical need for energy or a desire for a treat or reward. He was able to get chocolate bars at the office, which had satisfied his cravings. However, he thought the craving might be deeper, possibly a need for emotional recognition after working all day.
L had been watching an interesting YouTube video about a new AI model but remembered the challenge. He had questioned whether it was a craving or a need and realised he needed to look at his to-do list instead of watching videos. So he swallowed and looked at the to-do list. Throughout the month, he had frequently asked himself this question. He found it often was not a need but a craving. This reflection had changed his thinking. He recalled a quote from Will Durrant on Aristotle: We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. He believed choosing needs over cravings could become a habit.
Responses
Responding to N, T mentioned James Clear's book Atomic Habits, which suggests recognizing and substituting habits. She suggested that N’s craving might actually be a need to move his body, as he moves his mouth when eating chocolate. She suggested substituting walking outside after a long day at the office, akin to a daily medicine.
Passage
Now listen, my boy, to the information about the newly invented name of those terrestrial contemporary physicians articulated as ‘doctor.’
It would seem that this invention is that also of the beings of the ‘important’ community of Germany there, and they invented this articulation for the purpose of defining some merit or other of some among them, but this same invention of theirs, which was widely spread on the whole of their planet, became, for some reason or other, the ordinary nominal name for all the contemporary physicians there.
It must be even emphasized that, thanks to this invention of theirs, there was added there yet one more to the number of factors, the totality of which constantly leads them into error...
Discussion
N discussed how the term doctor initially signified merit but later became a general title, diluting its original significance. L said the word was used for many other fields outside medicine. N said there were many fake degrees, which undermining the credibility of the title "Doctor". T talked about the scarcity of doctors and the implications of reducing training standards. It was now possible to work with patients after only two years study.
Experiences
L had looked at the website of a local NHS Medical Centre, which did not entirely refect reality. The website included a mission statement focused on patient empowerment and environmental well-being, accompanied by cheerful cartoons of smiling poeple. Yet to communicate with the centre, it was necessity to phone at a precise time with limited chances of getting through, prolonged waiting times, and discourteous communication. Also the artist credited with the cartoons was stated to be a patient, but in fact was a professional artist based in a different part of the country.
N said that he had started to research the life of A E Housman, as a talk about the poet was coming up at his club, and found that contemporary interpretations often emphasised Houseman's repressed homosexuality and speculated about his private life. N noted that such perspectives might overshadow the poet's contributions, reducing them to mere reflections of societal biases rather than expressions of the human spirit.
Responses
N said there was pressure in society that everybody conformed to a particular perspective in the world, and he thought this was very dangerous. T talked of people being cancelled for having the wrong views. L said that Gurdjieff had described somebody as having been anathematised.
Passage
Thereafter our highly respected analytic-chemist takes from his table a form on which official title is indicated and writes:
“The powder sent to us for analysis proves to be, according to all the data, Dover’s powder. The analysis showed it to contain…” And he copies a formula from his German pharmaceutical guide, deliberately increasing or diminishing some of the figures, but increasing or diminishing them of course only very slightly so that they may not slap you in the eye.
...The form thus written is dispatched to him who sent the Dover’s powder, and the famous analytic-chemist himself is quite at peace as no one knows that he has made no analysis at all...
Discussion
N highlighted the lack of accountability and the chemist's security in knowing that no one could double-check his work, comparing it to how evidence can be destroyed to prevent verification.
Passage
Personally, in my handling of these remedies for many years, a definite opinion has been formed in me that none of the remedies known to contemporary medicine can be of any use at all without faith in it.
And faith in a person concerning any remedy arises only when the given remedy is known and when many people say that it is very good for a certain illness.
It is just the same with this powder of ours; once it is called Dover’s powder, that is enough, because everybody already knows it and many people often say of it that it is excellent for coughs.
And besides, speaking candidly, our new composition of Dover’s powder is much better than the real one made from the prescription of Dover himself, if only because it contains no substance injurious to the organism...
Discussion
N mentioned the placebo effect, that belief in the remedy's effectiveness is more important than its actual ingredients.
Passage
But from the powder made from our prescription this would never happen, since it contains none of that opium or any other substance harmful to the organism.
In short, my esteemed Doctor, every one ought, when walking in the streets, to shout from the bottom of his heart: “Long live the new prescription for Dover’s powder!”
Discussion
N described the historical promotion of addictive substances, making this celebration of a non-addictive alternative particularly poignant.
Experiences
T had noted the challenge's four stages: reading, remembering, doing, and noticing. Her main struggle lay in remembering to perform the actions, specifically raising her hand to her ear when encountering pseudo-scientific advice. She described an incident with a leaflet that promoted pharmaceutical products, which claimed to have won awards for boosting national trade and enhancing wealth. These products were marketed as beneficial for various life stages, using fear-mongering tactics related to health vulnerabilities during pregnancy, aging, and parental responsibilities for children's health. The products were paradoxically recommended for those in "normal health," which T identified as an oxymoron.
L had read George Galloway's speech upon becoming the MP for Rochdale, which portrayed himself as representing those who treasured the free rights that Britain had enjoyed since the Second World War, which L was not sure was entirely true. He also discussed the challenge of managing distractions, which similarly had their own allures that were helpful to identify, and these distractions often led him to overcommit. L reflected on how internal dialogues, like promising too much to oneself, could interfere with achieving one's goals, likening it to self-sabotage rather than external persuasion.
Responses
N resonated with T's observation on fear-driven marketing, expanding on how these tactics are pervasive across different sectors. He shared his own experience with health products and the skepticism surrounding alternative health strategies like intermittent fasting. N stressed the manipulative aspects of commercial fear and its impact on consumer behavior.
T agreed with N's points, adding depth to the discussion of health and pharmaceutical marketing. She elaborated on the economic motivations behind such marketing, critiquing the superficial awards and the actual nutritional value of products.
L connected the theme of distractions to broader societal structures, such as the economic system that pressures individuals into a predefined path of education and employment. He suggested alternative pursuits like art, which provide more meaningful engagement and personal fulfillment.
Passage
Here I could not help interrupting him: ‘You don’t mean it?… But it’s not possible!… Has no one ever discovered that instead of Dover’s powder you give them this particular mess?’
‘Of course not,’ laughingly replied this good acquaintance of mine. ‘These things can be detected only by sight and taste; and this Dover’s powder which we make, however you turn it and under whatever microscope you examine it, is in color the same as it should be according to the genuine prescription of this Doctor Dover.
Discussion
T thought the part about appearance being deceptive had a metaphorical implication of deceit and superficial qualities, akin to something looking good on the surface but being misleading underneath, like a cake covered with icing...
Passage
He said, ‘This young man, this mania’s darling, with the pimpled face, studies at a certain university to become a specialist analytic-chemist, but there at the university he is bound to study those special books usually fabricated in Germany by “learned beings” there.’
… And really, my boy, among these contemporary Germans, especially during recent times, the invention of ‘scientific’ books in all branches has also increased.
Discussion
L said that this was reminiscent of Tony Blair's policy of sending ever more young people to university. This meant it was necessary to have extra degrees and qualifications, and then new industries.
Passage
After finishing the course, this young man then receives the title of analytic-chemist. Sometimes it happens that before receiving a responsible post, the young man happens to get “practice” consisting usually in this, that he serves for a certain time at a “slaughterhouse,” where he helps the local chemist, also a former mama’s darling, to ascertain with the aid of a microscope, in a certain way only known to themselves, whether the pork contains trichinae; and only later, when a place is vacant somewhere, is he appointed to the official post of analytic-chemist.
Discussion
T thought that the reference to trichinae might be a metaphor for how corruption embeds itself within the fabric of society. T said that the quotations marks around the word "slaughterhouse" might be significant. N said it might be a euphemism. T said it was just an ordinary local chemist, but awful things were being done, animals being killed. N said the description of knowledge and learning might be a circular. A lot of things we used in life we just accepted as being gospel, because it came in nice packaging and we were told it was a trusted product like Dover's Powders. How much did we take remedies without questioning it? How many prescriptions? What prescribed behaviour do we take at that level? What "wisdom"?
Experiences
N had been involved in a professional matter which should have been completed within two or three weeks but was prolonged by the other party's actions. The solicitor on the other side seemed to be making the process overly complicated and time-consuming, causing frustration for N, Ultimately, the person who was delaying things was dismissed and there was a period of a few weeks when things were on hold till a replacement was found, who turned out to be more helpful. During all this time, N observed his emotional reaction and tried to remain calm.
L said there had been a recent rise in anti-semitism, with people in the public eye spreading false claims that Israel deliberately allowed the recent attack. (It was also commonly heard in social situations.) This led to questions about the motivations of those who say it, and whether there was a desire to cause trouble. Some individuals might knowingly spread these false claims, while others may do so without fully believing them. L was less interested in consuming news and more focused on creating harmony through artistic expression.
Responses
Responding to N, L said the motivation for the delaying tactics he had encountered might have been for the individual concerned to charge more for their time.
Responding to L, N said the same had happened after 911 as well, similar conspiracy theories were spread, and the worst of it was that he had one or two quite intelligent friends who believed in them. It just seemed a little nonsensical, but it was extraordinary how people would promote the most extreme views in this fashion. Even though they could not possibly be accurate, this is what they asserted. L said he knew an otherwise intelligent person who believed that Israelis were involved in the 911 attacks. Also Stockhausen had perversely described them as a great work of art. It was hard to understand the motivation behind such claims. T suggested that the allure of conspiracy theories might stem from a deep-seated desire for order or control in the face of chaos, likening it to an "absent father" complex. This desire leads to elevating certain groups or entities, such as Jews and Israelis in this context, only to denigrate them, akin to a rebellious teenager's relationship with parental figures. This dynamic serves not only to externalize blame but also to cope with the fear and uncertainty that would arise if those accused truly had orchestrated such events.
Passage
First of all, know and remember this, that the young three-brained beings there ... who prepare themselves to take ... the profession of a physician only learn by rote as many names as possible from among the many thousands of these said medicinal means now known there.
Discussion
N said the approach to healthcare often felt mechanical and superficial, focusing primarily on symptoms without delving deeper into the patient's overall well-being. Rote-learning was also prevalent in the study of law.
Experiences
T had visited a chemist, served by a young woman who made simple errors in counting prescriptions. Initially, T felt superior, able to correct these mistakes. However, she spotted a warmie shaped like a sloth or raccoon, and thought of buying it for a relative. Her mood shifted, and she had a conversation about her family with the same assistant, treating her like a friend. T later reflected that this was an example of the challenge, achieved without conscious effort, but recognised only in retrospect.
When L became aware of being either haughty or servile, he tried to take that middle path, being friendly and genuine, though he was unsure if it worked. He thought about how altering his stance could be unexpected to others, akin to taking cheese from a cat, as the other person was taking the opposite stance. When he became aware of an instance of the challenge, he consciously nodded, smiled, and was friendly.
N recounted having lunch with someone who often made him feel inferior. They had a long chat, bringing things back more into the human realm, which equalised them a lot more, and N saw the more human side of the other person. It had been an effort to try and change his internal feelings, but by the end of the meal, N felt he had acheived something along those lines.
Responses
Responding to T's experience at the chemist, N highlighted the subconscious aspect of her interaction shift. He pointed out that T was aware at some level, which led her to change the subject to something more personal, like cuddly toys. L said the toy had acted as a transitional object.
Rober Picardo as Star Trek's "Emergency Medical Hologram" |
Passage
who, called differently on different planets, take upon themselves essential obligations in relation to the environment of beings similar to themselves—well, these Zirlikners are those responsible individuals who voluntarily devote the whole of their existence to helping any being of that region to fulfill his being-obligations, if this being for some reason or other, or simply thanks to a temporary irregular functioning of his planetary body, ceases to be able to fulfill his inner or outer being-duty by himself.
It must without fail be noticed that in former times also on your planet such professionals as are now called there physicians were almost the same and did almost the same as our Zirlikners among us; but gradually with the flow of time, the responsible beings there who devoted themselves to such a profession, namely, to the fulfillment of such a high voluntary being-duty taken upon themselves, degenerated like everything on that strange planet and became also absolutely peculiar.
Discussion
N compared psychiatrists to the Zirlikners, emphasizing their role in helping people fulfill their being-obligations and assisting them in living their full essence.
L noted the use of the word "duty" in the extract, suggesting that everyone has a duty to perform, which can be affected by physical or mental problems. The Zirlikners would probably not differentiate between these issues as they are often interconnected.
T mentioned the universal nature of problems, suggesting that issues similar to those on Earth also exist on other planets, including the planet of the Zirlikners.
J discussed the concept of individual devotion versus community obligations, highlighting the dilemma of balancing personal beliefs with the needs of the community. This reflects the extract's theme of selfless service and the degeneration of noble professions.
Passage
those professionals who for the most part, during the period of their preparation to be responsible beings, succeed, as is said there, in ‘learning by rote’ much miscellaneous information concerning those means for getting rid of every possible kind of what are called their ‘illnesses,’ means which old women in their dotage, during all previous times on their planet, employed upon or advised for three-brained beings there to this end.
Among the number of such means for getting rid of the said illnesses, there are chiefly various remedies existing under the name of ‘medicines.’
Discussion
J took this to mean Gurdjieff was against healers learning by rote. It was better to consider an individual case in depth. L said that a true healer was unlikely to go through medical school, as learning by rote was de rigeur.
Passage
both the intensity of the desire to help and the quality itself of the help given always depend exclusively on the smell there is in the house to which he is called...
But if the house to which such a terrestrial ‘Zirlikner’ is called for help to a needy being smells of what are called ‘cancelled-German-marks,’ then his inner being-wish to help the person in need also increases, but only in this respect, that he may write out as quickly as possible what is called a ‘prescription,’ invented by the Germans, and the more quickly leave the house.
Discussion
L commented on the brevity of consultations in the NHS, and the difficulty in obtaining them.
Experiences
L had encountered instances of insincerity in media, such as a police spokesmen making promises which were not adhered to, and universtity staff giving false assurances to protect students (which led to one abandoning a course). He also referenced the verse by Confucius:
If there be investigation in the world, there will be completeness in the understanding.
If there be completeness in the understanding, there will be sincerity in the mind.
If there be sincerity in the mind, there will be righteousness in the heart.
leading to the final couplet:
If there be order in the nation, there will be peace in the world.
T had initially focused on spotting insincerity in others during conversations and media, but soon realized its elusive nature. She defaulted to assuming sincerity but acknowledged the difficulty of truly discerning it in others. She then concluded that self-assessment was the only feasible approach. During conversations, she strove to balance sincerity and insincerity, often reflecting on her own speech. Context played a role, as casual topics aimed at putting others at ease also influenced sincerity. A notable instance involved sheltering from rain with a stranger, where the relative nature of sincerity became apparent, leading to increased compassion for others and herself, echoing the saying, "There are no strangers here, only friends you haven't met yet."
N discussed the prevalence of insincerity in media, particularly in relation to global conflicts like Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine. He said this insincerity negatively impacted individuals and society, leading people to believe that success required insincerity. Over the past month, he had observed media content, and noticed that John Pilger had died, who was a very left wing news person. Some said he was an amazing investigative journalist, but he was quite the reverse, and had propagated falsehoods to support his ideologies. In contrast, N commended Douglas Murray for his ability to call out insincerity.
Responses
Responding to T, N said many decent people tended to presume sincerity in others, taking them at face value without questioning. However people were often insincere without realizing it. L said he liked T's quote, but suggested it was based on a specific cultural context and was naive and not universally applicable. Expanding on N's comments, he said that insincerity could begin with ourselves, citing an example of failing to keep promises to oneself. So sincerity might originate in our own thoughts and minds, in being true to oneself.
On N's reflections, T spoke of deliberate lying, especially in politics, questioning its position on the spectrum from insincerity to sincerity. L said that lying might be subjective, dependent on cultural goals and perspectives, making it seem like a lie only from an external viewpoint. It was as if people were playing a game by different rules. N talked about self-deception, highlighting the inconsistency between the 'I' that makes promises and the 'I' that may, or may not, fulfil them. L said that external accountability was helpful to prevent self-deception. It was harder to press the "snooze" button for someone supposed to get to work early.
Passage
at first intentionally on the part of their ruminating parts, and later, thanks already to the habit which they had created, there began to be stifled and gradually to cease, ‘self-criticism.’ And so, by reason of this ‘impotency’ arising and always increasing in their organization, which involved, by constant repetition, the whole disharmony of all the functioning of their psyche, there gradually almost disappeared from their common presences such data also infallibly inherent in every three-brained being of all our Great Universe for manifesting sincerity even towards themselves.
Discussion
N thought this was trying to say how the process of insincerity came about in us, and that that data which was there for us to recognise insincerity, and so therefore act on it, eventually got blotted out from our consciousness, such that we forgot - we didn't want to self criticise ourselves in the end. So with that disappearance, the sort of voice in us, which could perceive insincerity in ourselves, also disappeared. L thought it was suggesting that just as it was virtually impossible to be awake, for more than a moment, it was also virtually impossible to be sincere.
Passage
These two properties consist in this, that they always behave towards each other either, so to say, ‘haughtily’ or ‘servilely.’...
The said property which already became inherent in their common presences gradually led to this, that they lost the habit and automatically ceased to be able to be sincere with other beings similar to themselves, even with those belonging to their own caste.
Discussion
N thought this was very interesting. He had observed it in himself as well, sometimes servility, sometimes haughtiness with other people, and not the ability to be one's natural self. He noted how these structures, such as in schools and workplaces, compeled people to behave in certain ways.
T suggested that new caste systems were emerging, and highlighted the importance of viewing others as individuals rather than representatives of a social class or group.
J said that individuals often reacted to others as symbols of a social class rather than as individuals.
Passage
to choose, from among the professions existing there, that one which gives the possibility at times of automatically establishing among them those relations by which they can be sincere up to a certain degree, ...
That is why I then became just such a professional there as is called at the present time a ‘physician’.
This profession there corresponds somewhat to that profession which those whom we call our ‘Zirlikners’ have.
... I did not wish to choose this profession for myself, ... for the sole reason that this profession constantly constrains one to play outwardly a role and never allows one to consider one’s inner real impulses.
Discussion
L questioned the meaning of 'Zirlikners.' N suggested it might mean psychologists, referring to the listening psychoanalyst rather than a priest taking religious confession. However, either way it meant the practicianer adopting a role, and hence Beelzebub prefferred to be a physician which allowed for a degree of sincerity.
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