The meeting started with a reading from the first lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 8 April, 1943, in which the second question addressed to Gurdjieff was how to understand the words "sacrifice thy suffering". Drawing on an earlier talk, Gurdjieff replied: "Sacrifice your suffering for your neighbor, your voluntary suffering, not for yourself, but for others. (This rule used to form part of the oath pronounced formerly by doctors when they were astrologers and a long time ago when they had to promise to sacrifice their sleep, their fatigue, their suffering, for others.)"
He then went on to talk of three excrements of which the third is "formed in the head; it is rubbish of the food impressions, and the wastes accumulate in the brain. (The physician ignores it, just as he ignores the important role of the appendix in digestion, and rejects it as wastes.)"
A discussion followed the reading. "R" said that by the "third excrement", Gurdjieff was referring to more than a wandering mind - it can elaborated through looking at diagrams in the literature of the Work.
Moving from the reference to digestion, the issue of vegetarianism was addressed. R said that his teacher, the Swami, and Khalil Gibran, said there was no spiritual need to be a vegetarian. However R said he would be unable to eat a dolphin, as dolphins were very intelligent. L asked where one would draw the line between animals one could and could not eat, and suggested it was cultural. None present would want to eat a cat, although they are eaten in other parts of the world.
Following on the plan outlined in the December meeting, the participants, in turn, presented relevant experiences from the previous month. T spoke of how life drawing helps focusing, and is very humbling. L mentioned how ego undermines art and its administration.
Sunday, February 6, 2011
Sunday, January 2, 2011
Attention and Coincidence
The meeting started with a reading from the lecture of December 9, 1930 in New York, as transcribed in Views from the Real World, on the subject of Attention, in which Gurdjieff says: "There is no attention in people. You must aim to acquire this. Self-observation is only possible after acquiring attention. Start on small things." He goes on to to suggest trying, at first, to stop "nervous and restless movements . . . With these restless movements you cannot be anything. The first thing for you to do is to stop these movements. Make this your aim, your God. Even get your family to help you. Only after this, you can perhaps gain attention. This is an example of doing."
(Read more on this from the book itself, which is available from Amazon.)
A discussion followed, on the role of coincidence in life, and M explained how he thought a set of coincidences that led to him moving to Africa earlier in life were due to the sensitivity he had acquired through sustained work on himself.
(Read more on this from the book itself, which is available from Amazon.)
A discussion followed, on the role of coincidence in life, and M explained how he thought a set of coincidences that led to him moving to Africa earlier in life were due to the sensitivity he had acquired through sustained work on himself.
Sunday, December 5, 2010
Purpose
The meeting started with a discussion of aims and purpose.
RM repeated the three lines of work, saying that this is one of a few ideas in the work that particularly help him. He said that if one attends to all three lines then something happens. The chapter about the lunatic, the householder and the tramp has also been helpful recently, and he has been assessing his actions and observing his attitudes while in these three personas, and paying attention to his thoughts about himself or about what he is trying to do.
"R" said that the concept of "choice" is an illusion. She emphasised the distinction between wishing to do something and choosing to do something. RM agreed that wishing is the basis of man's actions.
"R" gave a personal example where she was applying the work to help tolerate being in a difficult but obligatory role.
T responded to the concept of the Work as a buffer or protective shield in life, with the example of the Psychoanalytic approach and Art Therapy approach. Here the analyst or therapist has to be in the company of the emotionally disturbed patient which can be difficult, and the aim of the approaches is to make the 'close' experience tolerable so that the practitioner remains available to the person.
M mentioned that in the commercial world, companies need a single "I", in terms of management. L said that in the case of public companies, there is a board of directors who are responsible to shareholders - there can be a number of people involved in management and they can be replaced. L asked if it is essential or desirable to reduce the I's to one in number, referring to Ouspensky's comment in Chapter 10 of The Fourth Way suggesting a mere reduction of the multiple I's rather than their total elimination:
"We decide to be at least less divided, instead of five hundred to become five."
M said that even God has three parts.
"R" recalled a pupil who asked, in all seriousness, "What’s the point?". "R" thought this a very useful question, and that everything has a purpose, is needed by the universe for a purpose, as part of a chain of transmission.
L referred to William Blake's proverb:
"Eternity is in love with the productions of time"
as likewise encapsulating the concept that we may, in some sense, have a purpose of creating things of beauty in connection with a higher, remote realm.
T said that the questioner asking, “What is the point?” seemed to be doing the “Work” without realising it by asking such a fundamental question.
L remarked that it can be a brave question, and its consideration led to existentialist philosophy and much of the great literature of the twentieth century.
RM related his experience that there is something magnetic about Gurdjieff's philosophy - he was talking about Work ideas after a conference the previous day, and suddenly noticed a large group of people had gathered round listening with evident interest.
RM said he thought the Meetings would benefit from a more structured approach, and the discussion moved on to this issue. The consensus was that the Meetings at present were just that and not a Group or School (though RM thought such developments should not be precluded in the future). One aim of the meetings was to remain accessible to newcomers as a bridge to the writings of Gurdjieff and the Work.
It was agreed that future meetings will take the form of
T commented the Meeting was like a review of the last year’s meetings and a plan for the new year. Some participants appeared now to have stopped attending. The move of premises from the more sociable venue of the hotel with its refreshments to the community centre with no refreshments appeared to have deterred some and not others.
The feeling was that the present venue was more suitable and less distracting for the meeting discussions. The subject of advertising for more members, the website and the outline of a curriculum for the following year was discussed.
L noted that the earlier question "What is the point?", had now also been analysed in the wider sense of the Meetings, and the result was a more structured approach for the future.
Following the meeting, the participants adjourned briefly for a Christmas coffee, and the discussion continued.
On the subject of art, and the application of will power in creativity, T cited the "blind painter of Peckham" who broke through the onset of total blindness and continued painting. A Guardian article tells the story and includes a video. "R" mentioned the similar case of Beethoven.
(Electronic versions of the books quoted above are available from the link on the right.)
RM repeated the three lines of work, saying that this is one of a few ideas in the work that particularly help him. He said that if one attends to all three lines then something happens. The chapter about the lunatic, the householder and the tramp has also been helpful recently, and he has been assessing his actions and observing his attitudes while in these three personas, and paying attention to his thoughts about himself or about what he is trying to do.
"R" said that the concept of "choice" is an illusion. She emphasised the distinction between wishing to do something and choosing to do something. RM agreed that wishing is the basis of man's actions.
"R" gave a personal example where she was applying the work to help tolerate being in a difficult but obligatory role.
T responded to the concept of the Work as a buffer or protective shield in life, with the example of the Psychoanalytic approach and Art Therapy approach. Here the analyst or therapist has to be in the company of the emotionally disturbed patient which can be difficult, and the aim of the approaches is to make the 'close' experience tolerable so that the practitioner remains available to the person.
M mentioned that in the commercial world, companies need a single "I", in terms of management. L said that in the case of public companies, there is a board of directors who are responsible to shareholders - there can be a number of people involved in management and they can be replaced. L asked if it is essential or desirable to reduce the I's to one in number, referring to Ouspensky's comment in Chapter 10 of The Fourth Way suggesting a mere reduction of the multiple I's rather than their total elimination:
"We decide to be at least less divided, instead of five hundred to become five."
M said that even God has three parts.
"R" recalled a pupil who asked, in all seriousness, "What’s the point?". "R" thought this a very useful question, and that everything has a purpose, is needed by the universe for a purpose, as part of a chain of transmission.
L referred to William Blake's proverb:
"Eternity is in love with the productions of time"
as likewise encapsulating the concept that we may, in some sense, have a purpose of creating things of beauty in connection with a higher, remote realm.
T said that the questioner asking, “What is the point?” seemed to be doing the “Work” without realising it by asking such a fundamental question.
L remarked that it can be a brave question, and its consideration led to existentialist philosophy and much of the great literature of the twentieth century.
RM related his experience that there is something magnetic about Gurdjieff's philosophy - he was talking about Work ideas after a conference the previous day, and suddenly noticed a large group of people had gathered round listening with evident interest.
RM said he thought the Meetings would benefit from a more structured approach, and the discussion moved on to this issue. The consensus was that the Meetings at present were just that and not a Group or School (though RM thought such developments should not be precluded in the future). One aim of the meetings was to remain accessible to newcomers as a bridge to the writings of Gurdjieff and the Work.
It was agreed that future meetings will take the form of
- An audio-file playback (starting with the Eight Meetings in Paris).
- A reading, preferably from Gurdjieff's writings.
- A presentation from those present (should they wish) of experiences during the previous month which went well or badly in light of what had been discussed.
- A discussion.
- A decision on the reading for the following Meeting to allow some time for familiarisation with the content.
T commented the Meeting was like a review of the last year’s meetings and a plan for the new year. Some participants appeared now to have stopped attending. The move of premises from the more sociable venue of the hotel with its refreshments to the community centre with no refreshments appeared to have deterred some and not others.
The feeling was that the present venue was more suitable and less distracting for the meeting discussions. The subject of advertising for more members, the website and the outline of a curriculum for the following year was discussed.
L noted that the earlier question "What is the point?", had now also been analysed in the wider sense of the Meetings, and the result was a more structured approach for the future.
Following the meeting, the participants adjourned briefly for a Christmas coffee, and the discussion continued.
On the subject of art, and the application of will power in creativity, T cited the "blind painter of Peckham" who broke through the onset of total blindness and continued painting. A Guardian article tells the story and includes a video. "R" mentioned the similar case of Beethoven.
(Electronic versions of the books quoted above are available from the link on the right.)
Sunday, November 7, 2010
The three lines of work
The meeting began with the decision to focus on The Fourth Way, a compilation of Ouspensky's writings and teachings published after his death. RM had been studying Chapter 11, on the three lines of work.
In this chapter, Ouspensky uses an analogy from music to depict the the tendency of activities to divert from their originally intended direction.
"If we take school-work as an ascending octave, we know that in each octave there are two intervals or gaps, between mi and fa and between si and do. In order to pass through these gaps without changing the character or the line of the work it is necessary to know how to fill them. So if I want to guarantee the direction of the work in a straight line, I must work on three lines simultaneously. If I work only on one line, or on two lines, the direction will change. If I work on three lines, or three octaves, one line will help another to pass the interval by giving the necessary shock."
(Read more on this from the book itself. An electronic version of this book is available from the link on the right.)
RM reading from this chapter, with intervals for discussion.
"R" described her interpretation of the '3 lines of work':
M added that "the first line, is self observation to review your thoughts, to observe the obstacles to doing something, to observe what is conscious will power, what is right will and what is self will."
Self observation and increasing will to bring about change in a person were discussed.
"R" said that the three lines of work can be described "as a chain of transmission". By doing the "work" questions arise and Gurdjieff stated, from his position of inhabiting a plane of higher consciousness "I [higher consciousness] will help you". The study of theory and the act of practice are both in the first line of work. Through studying the theory and putting it into practice one gains new understanding, through this synthesis. Developing new understanding through practising the implementation of the will and observing any changes to habitual behaviour and gaining insights is the aim of the work.
D asked about "regrets" which he is still painfully experiencing 7 years after his brother's death. What can be done now that death has taken away the potential for actual meetings to resolve issues?
RM replied "What we have is the now, in which before and after are present."
"R" suggested "Pray for your brother. Prayer changes the moment into an offering of the 'you, now-in-the-continuum' to your brother.
T said "You took for granted that you would see your brother again and the shock is that the opposite is true, you are living with the shock that you cannot see your brother again. This is a truth every day for anyone we meet and we cannot take it for granted that the person will be alive in a 'next time'. This is a gift of a truth, a conscious shock, to help to guide how to live now in the world of relationships."
In this chapter, Ouspensky uses an analogy from music to depict the the tendency of activities to divert from their originally intended direction.
"If we take school-work as an ascending octave, we know that in each octave there are two intervals or gaps, between mi and fa and between si and do. In order to pass through these gaps without changing the character or the line of the work it is necessary to know how to fill them. So if I want to guarantee the direction of the work in a straight line, I must work on three lines simultaneously. If I work only on one line, or on two lines, the direction will change. If I work on three lines, or three octaves, one line will help another to pass the interval by giving the necessary shock."
(Read more on this from the book itself. An electronic version of this book is available from the link on the right.)
RM reading from this chapter, with intervals for discussion.
"R" described her interpretation of the '3 lines of work':
- First line: I am working for myself.
- Second line: I am working for my companions.
- Third line: I am working for the benefit of the evolution of our planet."
M added that "the first line, is self observation to review your thoughts, to observe the obstacles to doing something, to observe what is conscious will power, what is right will and what is self will."
Self observation and increasing will to bring about change in a person were discussed.
"R" said that the three lines of work can be described "as a chain of transmission". By doing the "work" questions arise and Gurdjieff stated, from his position of inhabiting a plane of higher consciousness "I [higher consciousness] will help you". The study of theory and the act of practice are both in the first line of work. Through studying the theory and putting it into practice one gains new understanding, through this synthesis. Developing new understanding through practising the implementation of the will and observing any changes to habitual behaviour and gaining insights is the aim of the work.
D asked about "regrets" which he is still painfully experiencing 7 years after his brother's death. What can be done now that death has taken away the potential for actual meetings to resolve issues?
RM replied "What we have is the now, in which before and after are present."
"R" suggested "Pray for your brother. Prayer changes the moment into an offering of the 'you, now-in-the-continuum' to your brother.
T said "You took for granted that you would see your brother again and the shock is that the opposite is true, you are living with the shock that you cannot see your brother again. This is a truth every day for anyone we meet and we cannot take it for granted that the person will be alive in a 'next time'. This is a gift of a truth, a conscious shock, to help to guide how to live now in the world of relationships."
Sunday, October 3, 2010
Aims
The meeting started with a reading of Chapter 10 of Ouspensky’s book "The Fourth Way", on the resistance to developing will power and doing things, in which he writes:
"Everything 'happens'. People can 'do' nothing. From the time we are born to the time we die things happen, happen, happen, and we think we are doing. This is our normal state in life . . .
We have a certain aim, but many of our 'I's do not want to go that way, so naturally conflict increases. But the creation of unity is not the result of conflict—it is the result of struggle with conflict. We are many and we want to be one — this is one formulation of our aim.. . . We decide to be at least less divided, instead of five hundred to become five."
(Read more on this from the book itself. An electronic version of this book is available from the link on the right.)
D asked M what was his aim now, at his time of life.
M replied that life is eternal, that he is only dealing with the now. He is reincarnated and will be reincarnated.
D said he no longer believes in reincarnation. He used to but now thinks there is nothing.
L asked, if we believed in reincarnation, whether we would choose to live for ever if there were a scientific advance, and commented that Ouspensky thought recurrence a more scientific theory than reincarnation, as a person has less evidence for reality outside the span of his own lifetime.
D recommended the recent Stephen Hawking programme on Channel 4 suggesting life appeared as a result of an accident - the earth was at the right distance, and carbon formed.
L said it does not matter whether or not we believe we are here by design or accident, in terms of developing will power now. If playing chess, it is irrelevant who made the chessboard and fashioned the pieces, or whether they arose by chance.
We have a certain aim, but many of our 'I's do not want to go that way, so naturally conflict increases. But the creation of unity is not the result of conflict—it is the result of struggle with conflict. We are many and we want to be one — this is one formulation of our aim.. . . We decide to be at least less divided, instead of five hundred to become five."
(Read more on this from the book itself. An electronic version of this book is available from the link on the right.)
D asked M what was his aim now, at his time of life.
M replied that life is eternal, that he is only dealing with the now. He is reincarnated and will be reincarnated.
D said he no longer believes in reincarnation. He used to but now thinks there is nothing.
L asked, if we believed in reincarnation, whether we would choose to live for ever if there were a scientific advance, and commented that Ouspensky thought recurrence a more scientific theory than reincarnation, as a person has less evidence for reality outside the span of his own lifetime.
D recommended the recent Stephen Hawking programme on Channel 4 suggesting life appeared as a result of an accident - the earth was at the right distance, and carbon formed.
L said it does not matter whether or not we believe we are here by design or accident, in terms of developing will power now. If playing chess, it is irrelevant who made the chessboard and fashioned the pieces, or whether they arose by chance.
D said that Stephen Hawking did believe in God but 20 years ago changed his mind, but his desire to find out has given him the will power to stay alive.
Referring to self-study, L noted that artists and writers often do self-portraits.
Sunday, September 5, 2010
The Seekers of Truth
The name by which Gurdjieff, as a young man, called his group of fellow travellers, is also the title, Les Chercheurs de Vérité (The Seekers of Truth), of a video produced by the Paris based Institut G.I.Gurdjieff, and is not available for general distribution. The Meeting was very grateful to "R" for the opportunity to view this film, and for bringing her laptop to show it on.
As "R" relates, "to see still photos and old newsreel footage, and hear some of his music as well as his words, which are spoken in the film by the professional film-maker who was also himself among his pupils, was deeply impressive for those who were there and raised lots of questions."
The first half was watched, and followed by a discussion.
As "R" relates, "to see still photos and old newsreel footage, and hear some of his music as well as his words, which are spoken in the film by the professional film-maker who was also himself among his pupils, was deeply impressive for those who were there and raised lots of questions."
The first half was watched, and followed by a discussion.
Sunday, August 1, 2010
Recurrence
The meeting, as before, started with a reading of Chapter 16 of Ouspensky’s book "The Fourth Way", on recurrence and reincarnation.
The question arose what part of the person survives one life to exist in another. RM said that in the advaita vedanta belief system, everything is a dream, the whole cosmos is in existence within people's minds. L asked about the case of a tree falling in the forest unobserved, or a meteor striking Neptune. That too would be part of everyone's existence, RM said.
"R" suggested that the sensory reality of her body existing in the world is evidence for her of a physical existence in the world.
L referred to the computer on the table being an object in physical existence, the result of designs by scientists and engineers of genius.
RM explained that advaita is Sanskrit for "not two", representing a non-dualistic view of the world where everything is one.
L asked if music exists independently before it is written down. For example, had Beethoven not written down his fifth symphony, in what manner would it now exist? RM responded that the C influence, which affected Beethoven, would still have existed.
"R" said that our belief of free action is a delusion and our actions are a response to conditioning and other prior actions. L proposed a technique of independent choice based on throwing dice to select what to do. "R" said that the way the dice would fall is still inevitable, even if unpredictable.
The reading continued, with Ouspensky saying: "Very often you hear people say . . . that they can remember their lives in previous reincarnations . . . This is pure fantasy. . . . What may pass from one life to another is essence. So one can have only such vague sensations, instead of definite recollections, that it is hard to suppose that anyone can remember anything concrete."
A said that she has met people in this life who she remembers from a previous life. She also knows how she died and what happens after; the subconscious becomes conscious and there is an appreciation that everyone is connected - after such a realisation it is very hard to return to ordinary life.
D asked for a explanation of what recurrence is. L said it can either be a repeat of the same life, in the same period of time, or a similar life in a future period, perhaps meeting some of the same people again in related situations. A third possibility is reincarnation to an unrelated life. D mentioned a memory of leading a group of French soldiers in Russia during the Napoleonic wars. The discussion moved to what part of the person was it that remembered, essence or personality. T made the comment that whoever it was that had experienced the traumatic time described by D, had perhaps been "woken" by the trauma to a deeper experience of reality than usual. If the remembered event was an occurrence of someone "waking up" from their usual "sleep", maybe D remembers the event from his essence which is said to be universal or eternal. In this case D may or may not have been present at the time to experience this event, which is inexplicable in his present "ordinary" life.
"R" related the essence to the universal or collective unconscious containing all knowledge and experience.
M said there is a need to believe in eternal life as otherwise what would be the point of existence?
L referred to a novel "The End of Mr Y" by Scarlett Thomas, which posits a method by which people can temporarily experience being in another person's mind in the present or the past - such a mechanism would be an alternative explanation for some evidence put forward for reincarnation.
The reading continued, with Ouspensky saying recurrence is a more scientific theory in the sense that we do not have direct evidence for the existence of time outside of our own lifetimes. "Time is life for each person, and it includes in itself all time, so that when life ends, time ends. So reincarnation is a less scientific theory than recurrence - too much is taken for granted." He also writes "As a theory I would say that the theory of recurrence is better than the theory of reincarnation, but we have no real evidence as to whether it is nearer to facts or not. And we cannot have evidence because of our state of consciousness."
"R" recalled from childhood being told "If I were you . . .", and how, at that time, it set her pondering what if it were true that "I were you", and that people might be the same, part of a common flow, except for a part which appears for each person to be distinct and self-conscious.
(An electronic version of The Fourth Way is available from the link on the right. For a Google Books preview of "The End Of Mr Y" click here.)
The question arose what part of the person survives one life to exist in another. RM said that in the advaita vedanta belief system, everything is a dream, the whole cosmos is in existence within people's minds. L asked about the case of a tree falling in the forest unobserved, or a meteor striking Neptune. That too would be part of everyone's existence, RM said.
"R" suggested that the sensory reality of her body existing in the world is evidence for her of a physical existence in the world.
L referred to the computer on the table being an object in physical existence, the result of designs by scientists and engineers of genius.
RM explained that advaita is Sanskrit for "not two", representing a non-dualistic view of the world where everything is one.
L asked if music exists independently before it is written down. For example, had Beethoven not written down his fifth symphony, in what manner would it now exist? RM responded that the C influence, which affected Beethoven, would still have existed.
"R" said that our belief of free action is a delusion and our actions are a response to conditioning and other prior actions. L proposed a technique of independent choice based on throwing dice to select what to do. "R" said that the way the dice would fall is still inevitable, even if unpredictable.
The reading continued, with Ouspensky saying: "Very often you hear people say . . . that they can remember their lives in previous reincarnations . . . This is pure fantasy. . . . What may pass from one life to another is essence. So one can have only such vague sensations, instead of definite recollections, that it is hard to suppose that anyone can remember anything concrete."
A said that she has met people in this life who she remembers from a previous life. She also knows how she died and what happens after; the subconscious becomes conscious and there is an appreciation that everyone is connected - after such a realisation it is very hard to return to ordinary life.
D asked for a explanation of what recurrence is. L said it can either be a repeat of the same life, in the same period of time, or a similar life in a future period, perhaps meeting some of the same people again in related situations. A third possibility is reincarnation to an unrelated life. D mentioned a memory of leading a group of French soldiers in Russia during the Napoleonic wars. The discussion moved to what part of the person was it that remembered, essence or personality. T made the comment that whoever it was that had experienced the traumatic time described by D, had perhaps been "woken" by the trauma to a deeper experience of reality than usual. If the remembered event was an occurrence of someone "waking up" from their usual "sleep", maybe D remembers the event from his essence which is said to be universal or eternal. In this case D may or may not have been present at the time to experience this event, which is inexplicable in his present "ordinary" life.
"R" related the essence to the universal or collective unconscious containing all knowledge and experience.
M said there is a need to believe in eternal life as otherwise what would be the point of existence?
L referred to a novel "The End of Mr Y" by Scarlett Thomas, which posits a method by which people can temporarily experience being in another person's mind in the present or the past - such a mechanism would be an alternative explanation for some evidence put forward for reincarnation.
The reading continued, with Ouspensky saying recurrence is a more scientific theory in the sense that we do not have direct evidence for the existence of time outside of our own lifetimes. "Time is life for each person, and it includes in itself all time, so that when life ends, time ends. So reincarnation is a less scientific theory than recurrence - too much is taken for granted." He also writes "As a theory I would say that the theory of recurrence is better than the theory of reincarnation, but we have no real evidence as to whether it is nearer to facts or not. And we cannot have evidence because of our state of consciousness."
"R" recalled from childhood being told "If I were you . . .", and how, at that time, it set her pondering what if it were true that "I were you", and that people might be the same, part of a common flow, except for a part which appears for each person to be distinct and self-conscious.
(An electronic version of The Fourth Way is available from the link on the right. For a Google Books preview of "The End Of Mr Y" click here.)
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