The meeting opened with each present giving an example of relevant experiences from the previous month, as D had suggested at the August meeting.
M said he experienced feeling awake more often. T asked for an example. M described how he had left his flat without a set of keys he needed, but almost immediately remembered his purpose and returned to collect them.
T related that having missed a meeting, she felt out of touch, but that her real work is being done when she paints. She has instituted a system with a thirty minute timer. At the moment it goes off, she has to stop. This reminds her of Gurdjieff's "stop exercise", as she has to stop irrespective of where she is at. It's not about the painting, it's about the use of attention.
RM agreed, and recounted that when working on a farm as a member of a Gurdjieff Group, people were told to keep attention on the work, not on the expectation - a gong would sound and everyone would stop and observe their feelings. While working in this way time can seem to stretch. When elderly people say time passes quickly it is because they spend more time asleep. If they say they only need four hours sleep a night, it is because they spend hours of the day "asleep".
L suggested that the slow passing of time indicates that a person is awake.
RM said that he thought it likely that Gurdjieff never stopped working.
L said that since the previous meeting he has come to consider the possibility of a fourth mind - creative or artistic - in addition to the instinctive, emotional and intellectual. Sometimes things slot into place or take shape over weeks, months or years in making art.
D said that a songwriter might sometimes get a tune instantly while doing something completely unrelated like driving - jot it down and it becomes a hit.
RM thought it was a matter of bisociative thinking.
D said Colin Wilson's view in The War Against Sleep was that Gurdjieff did not consider imagination.
Turning to his own experience during the month, D recounted that he has moved house. He had to get rid of a lot of books which he found very difficult. He realised how much attachment he felt to the books, and how much he valued one in particular, an original copy of Beelzebubs Tales which he had never read, and rescued from the black bags of those to be thrown away, which even charity shops were not interested in - he thought that there is a huge destruction of books going on.
RM described an exercise he has developed to help him wake up. He has been trying to find ways (like seeing how many lamposts he can count while walking before falling asleep), and has worked out a mantra designed to create a rhythm in the mind of awareness and attention: "Every cell of my body glows with attentive awareness - with every step I take my body glows with attentive awareness ...". He has found that his memory has been improving since, and has learnt to recite twelve Shakespeare sonnets. Each sentence has come to feel like a single dictionary entry. He recited one:
Look in thy glass, and tell the face thou viewest
Now is the time that face should form another;
Whose fresh repair if now thou not renewest,
Thou dost beguile the world, unbless some mother,
For where is she so fair whose unear'd womb
Disdains the tillage of thy husbandry?
Or who is he so fond will be the tomb
Of his self-love, to stop posterity?
Thou art thy mother's glass, and she in thee
Calls back the lovely April of her prime:
So thou through windows of thine age shall see
Despite of wrinkles this thy golden time.
But if thou live, remember'd not to be,
Die single, and thine image dies with thee.
D said it reminded him of Gurdjieff's writing in Beelzebub's Tales, and wondered where Shakespeare had come across the ideas.
RM said the sonnets contain Rosicrucian teachings.
M asserted that they and the plays were written by Francis Bacon.
RM said that Bacon could not publish plays under his own name as it would have been considered inappropriate for a senior official to be a playwright.
As so much time had passed in going through the month's experiences, L suggested that a timer system be introduced from next month, five minutes per person, and this was agreed by all present.
The Meeting then turned to reading from Beelzebub's Tales, Chapter I, The Arousing of Thought.
...always and everywhere on the earth...that definite utterance understandable to every even quite illiterate person, which in different epochs has been formulated variously and in our day is formulated in the following words: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the Holy Ghost, Amen."
M asked about the meaning of the phrase, saying that he thought the "Holy Ghost" was a reference to Gurdjieff's concept of Third Force.
L said that there is often some thing new to notice when coming back to the text. In this case the phrase "always and everywhere" seems to be an echo of the title "All and Everything" of the collection of books beginning with this paragraph.
M recalled an account of Gurdjieff being asked if anything of substance exists after death. In response Gurdjieff asked if there was anything of substance now.
T described a conversation she had recently heard on a bus. A mother asked her little boy "What do you want to eat?" The boy was not interested in food and asked what he was going to do after she died. This was an aware question, and who is willing to help such a child with thinking about it?
D remembered being a child in an institution, looking at the stars, and wondering what was up there.
RM wondered why the old Beelzebub's Tales edition was being used rather than the newer one, as he remembered Gurdjieff students being enthusiastic about it before publication.
L read the section of the July meeting's account where this was discussed.
RM said he would like to prepare a list of basic principles of Gurdjieff's teachings, and thought this would attract and help new members.
L said there were several informative links on the webpage, and another could be added to link to the list.
Sunday, October 2, 2011
Sunday, September 4, 2011
Consciousness
Initially the Meeting considered a phrase used by Gurdjieff early in Beelzebub's Tales, "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost", and what it symbolises.
The discussion then moved to consciousness.
M described consciousness as a particular kind of awareness independent of the mind's usual activities, and suggested that it is experienced by people as awareness of who they are and of what they are doing and for what purpose - a man can observe his own level of conscious awareness with self-observation and consider whether his mental processes are conforming to his best interests. Generally a man can be described as having the possibility of living in four states of consciousness, but he lives mostly in the two lower states: the sleeping state when he is asleep and the waking state when he a little more awake and is able to participate in his usual daily mechanical patterns of behaviour.
The discussion then moved to consciousness.
M described consciousness as a particular kind of awareness independent of the mind's usual activities, and suggested that it is experienced by people as awareness of who they are and of what they are doing and for what purpose - a man can observe his own level of conscious awareness with self-observation and consider whether his mental processes are conforming to his best interests. Generally a man can be described as having the possibility of living in four states of consciousness, but he lives mostly in the two lower states: the sleeping state when he is asleep and the waking state when he a little more awake and is able to participate in his usual daily mechanical patterns of behaviour.
Sunday, August 7, 2011
Ego
The Meeting opened with a discussion of an email received from Colet House about a forthcoming Open Day of the Gurdjieff Movements. "... On the 3rd September 2011 the Study Society at Colet House, which was founded by P.D Ouspensky, is holding a free Open Day of the Gurdjieff Movements in west London. The Movements were originally taught in the 1930’s at Colet House by Mme Ouspensky and other teachers sent by Gurdjieff and have been passed down in a direct line to the present day, so they are an authentic, unbroken line of transmission. This is a unique opportunity to hear a talk about the Movements, see a demonstration and sign up for classes..."
[UPDATE - This event has been cancelled. There will be another opportunity to hear a talk and take part of some of the movements. For further details email katebrass@eggconnect.net.]
"R" said that Mme Ouspensky taught the Movements for many years. It was agreed that it would be an interesting opportunity to witness the Movements at the house long associated with Ouspensky and the Movements. All those interested, whether attendees of the Meetings or readers of this blog, can register.
There was some discussion of the history of Colet House and the Study Society, and RM explained how he reconciled in his mind the models of Gurdjieff and the teachings of the Shankaracharya of North India.
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, moving to a question from the student Kahn, who said "... I have as it were an impulse to succeed in playing my true role in regard to my son or my father ... I saw recently all my body, all my emotions, all my sentiment and my usual desires as that which I had to succeed in killing in me in order to attain birth, and I understood that I would succeed in being what I want to be if I succeeded in making that which I am die." Gurdjieff responded "...Why do you use the word "true"? ... cease saying the word "true". One must not give this value to things."
M remarked on Kahn's use of the word "kill", preferring instead "redirect". "R" said Kahn's usage might have reflected concepts he was familiar with.
The lecture continues with Gurdjieff turning to another student, Simone, asking "You understood? For you also something is opened?" Simone replies: "I feel something in my head now that stays nearly all the time; it is not very strong but it is almost constant, something that makes me see beings and things in a different way." Gurdjieff concludes with "... Little by little everything must be different. You are beginning to have a true view. You had, up to the present, a fantastic point of view."
RM had studied the origin of the term "born again", which he said was not religious but to do with ego.
D commented that M often used the term "One" where he himself would say "I". "R" said that "I" is the preferred usage although we are far from the truth. These remarks reminded M of the work of R D Laing. D and RM were reminded also of the ideas of Assagioli and psychosynthesis.
D turned the discussion to the "economic crunch" and wondered what hope there was. RM thought there was no crisis. L said that the printing of money by governments was akin to false associations of personality, and referred to the works of Ralph Nelson Elliott, who considered economic history as a manifestation of mass psychology which followed fractal patterns.
It was decided to reflect on which lecture to read next during the ensuing month, and attention turned to Beelzebub's Tales, from which the beginning of Chapter 1, The Arousing of Thought, was read.
M queried Gurdjieff's use of the term "the three sexes", and "R" said that it relates to a reference much later in the book.
There being no time left to consider examples of experiences from the previous month, D suggested that in future these be discussed at the beginning of every meeting, and all present agreed.
"R" said that Mme Ouspensky taught the Movements for many years. It was agreed that it would be an interesting opportunity to witness the Movements at the house long associated with Ouspensky and the Movements. All those interested, whether attendees of the Meetings or readers of this blog, can register.
There was some discussion of the history of Colet House and the Study Society, and RM explained how he reconciled in his mind the models of Gurdjieff and the teachings of the Shankaracharya of North India.
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, moving to a question from the student Kahn, who said "... I have as it were an impulse to succeed in playing my true role in regard to my son or my father ... I saw recently all my body, all my emotions, all my sentiment and my usual desires as that which I had to succeed in killing in me in order to attain birth, and I understood that I would succeed in being what I want to be if I succeeded in making that which I am die." Gurdjieff responded "...Why do you use the word "true"? ... cease saying the word "true". One must not give this value to things."
M remarked on Kahn's use of the word "kill", preferring instead "redirect". "R" said Kahn's usage might have reflected concepts he was familiar with.
The lecture continues with Gurdjieff turning to another student, Simone, asking "You understood? For you also something is opened?" Simone replies: "I feel something in my head now that stays nearly all the time; it is not very strong but it is almost constant, something that makes me see beings and things in a different way." Gurdjieff concludes with "... Little by little everything must be different. You are beginning to have a true view. You had, up to the present, a fantastic point of view."
RM had studied the origin of the term "born again", which he said was not religious but to do with ego.
D commented that M often used the term "One" where he himself would say "I". "R" said that "I" is the preferred usage although we are far from the truth. These remarks reminded M of the work of R D Laing. D and RM were reminded also of the ideas of Assagioli and psychosynthesis.
D turned the discussion to the "economic crunch" and wondered what hope there was. RM thought there was no crisis. L said that the printing of money by governments was akin to false associations of personality, and referred to the works of Ralph Nelson Elliott, who considered economic history as a manifestation of mass psychology which followed fractal patterns.
It was decided to reflect on which lecture to read next during the ensuing month, and attention turned to Beelzebub's Tales, from which the beginning of Chapter 1, The Arousing of Thought, was read.
M queried Gurdjieff's use of the term "the three sexes", and "R" said that it relates to a reference much later in the book.
There being no time left to consider examples of experiences from the previous month, D suggested that in future these be discussed at the beginning of every meeting, and all present agreed.
Sunday, July 3, 2011
The Zone
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943, with Gurdjieff saying "... you no longer have your associations. ... In a special state when you relax a little, you can remember this feeling and you must seize it." Later, Tracol, a student, says "The strongest feeling of division is when I do it under comfortable conditions". Mme de Salzmann responds, "It is necessary for this to grow in you in these moments. After, little by little, you shall be able to make this state last."
"R" asked what state is being referred to. D put it in the context of sport. Andy Murray had just lost a Wimbledon semi-final. In contrast in his previous match he could not put a foot wrong, he was "in the zone". D found it would sometimes feel like that at the pool table. He referred also to the dancer Nijinsky who thought he was God. T said that sometimes it is very hard to paint but at other times it flows.
The reading continued. Responding to a query from the student Kahn, Gurdjieff says "You cannot yet have a 'true love'. One aspect of 'true love' must be to hate justly, to hate objectively, not the object but its manifestations. ... cease saying the word 'true'. ... You cannot yet love, you can do nothing. You do not yet have the feeling and I have need of you having it."
L said that Gurdjieff may have put a stop to a romance with his comments. "R" said that love is usually limited but that people like drama, and that life without dramas is boring. D said that love among the young is often infatuation. L suggested that the term "falling in love" is pejorative and should perhaps be "ascending in love"; many artists have believed that love should not be controlled by mind, and he quoted John Lennon, "Love is old, love is new. Love is all, love is you." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5qXVODCvC8&NR=1
M brought up Maurice Nicoll's interpretation of the cross, saying that the level of the horizontal bar signifies level of mind, and that if it reaches the top of the cross the symbol changes to the Egyptian tau cross. "R" added that ancient Egypt also had the ankh cross, where a loop, symbolising reincarnation, is above the horizontal bar.
The Meeting moved on to begin reading from Beelzebub's Tales, but it transpired that there were two different editions circulating in the room. It was decided to use the earliest edition available (the later one was not originally intended for publication), and begin again the following month.
There was a little time for those present to recount significant events from the month that had passed.
D had been concerned about his brother, with whom he had had no contact for six weeks. He sent his brother a text message urging him to get in touch. Half an hour later he met his brother in the street. The text message had not been received, as his brother had left his mobile phone at home. L suggested that the mind of D's brother, being a little disturbed, might have been more open.
T had realised that her recent habit of working late was in fact resistance to doing art, a self-sabotage to ensure she was too tired to start painting early. D asked her why she wanted to be tired, but admitted that he will do anything but write, his current excuse being that he needs to move house. L referred to the character Lord Foul in Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books, as epitomising for him the force of resistance to creative art, this force being more powerful than psychology alone. He observed that no sooner was he about to write a note of music, after preparing to work, than the phone would ring. Another time, at the instant he is primed to start work, there might be a noisy disturbance outside.
M had been exhausted following a hospital visit, and had found it necessary to listen to his body and be sensible, not to do too much or walk too far. A diagnosis of his condition had caused him to become more awake.
R has been so busy she had had to resort to microwave cooking. Over the month to come she is determined spend more time on preparing her food.
"R" asked what state is being referred to. D put it in the context of sport. Andy Murray had just lost a Wimbledon semi-final. In contrast in his previous match he could not put a foot wrong, he was "in the zone". D found it would sometimes feel like that at the pool table. He referred also to the dancer Nijinsky who thought he was God. T said that sometimes it is very hard to paint but at other times it flows.
The reading continued. Responding to a query from the student Kahn, Gurdjieff says "You cannot yet have a 'true love'. One aspect of 'true love' must be to hate justly, to hate objectively, not the object but its manifestations. ... cease saying the word 'true'. ... You cannot yet love, you can do nothing. You do not yet have the feeling and I have need of you having it."
L said that Gurdjieff may have put a stop to a romance with his comments. "R" said that love is usually limited but that people like drama, and that life without dramas is boring. D said that love among the young is often infatuation. L suggested that the term "falling in love" is pejorative and should perhaps be "ascending in love"; many artists have believed that love should not be controlled by mind, and he quoted John Lennon, "Love is old, love is new. Love is all, love is you." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5qXVODCvC8&NR=1
M brought up Maurice Nicoll's interpretation of the cross, saying that the level of the horizontal bar signifies level of mind, and that if it reaches the top of the cross the symbol changes to the Egyptian tau cross. "R" added that ancient Egypt also had the ankh cross, where a loop, symbolising reincarnation, is above the horizontal bar.
The Meeting moved on to begin reading from Beelzebub's Tales, but it transpired that there were two different editions circulating in the room. It was decided to use the earliest edition available (the later one was not originally intended for publication), and begin again the following month.
There was a little time for those present to recount significant events from the month that had passed.
D had been concerned about his brother, with whom he had had no contact for six weeks. He sent his brother a text message urging him to get in touch. Half an hour later he met his brother in the street. The text message had not been received, as his brother had left his mobile phone at home. L suggested that the mind of D's brother, being a little disturbed, might have been more open.
T had realised that her recent habit of working late was in fact resistance to doing art, a self-sabotage to ensure she was too tired to start painting early. D asked her why she wanted to be tired, but admitted that he will do anything but write, his current excuse being that he needs to move house. L referred to the character Lord Foul in Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant books, as epitomising for him the force of resistance to creative art, this force being more powerful than psychology alone. He observed that no sooner was he about to write a note of music, after preparing to work, than the phone would ring. Another time, at the instant he is primed to start work, there might be a noisy disturbance outside.
M had been exhausted following a hospital visit, and had found it necessary to listen to his body and be sensible, not to do too much or walk too far. A diagnosis of his condition had caused him to become more awake.
R has been so busy she had had to resort to microwave cooking. Over the month to come she is determined spend more time on preparing her food.
Sunday, June 5, 2011
Animals and Humans
At the beginning of the meeting there was a query as to what had been discussed the previous month. It was decided, as a trial, to start by reviewing the account of the previous meeting by going through the entry on the website. While this gave rise to much discussion, it used up a significant amount of time and it was decided in future to suggest that people read through the blog entry from the previous month and if they have any comments to bring them with to the meeting.
It was also decided to begin reading Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, being a seminal work of Gurdjieff. "R" thought Beelzebub's Tales alongside Views from the Real World, are the two books by Gurdjieff that are primary. M said that in his reading of the book, he had found Chapter 39, "The Holy Planet Purgatory", the most significant. (This chapter is the last one of the second book.) "R" recalled that her teacher had said that if you did not read anything else, you should read that section. It was decided to start methodically, the following month, at the beginning of the book. "R" said there are instructions at the start to read it three times, and suggested reading it as fluidly as possible, rather than focusing on discussion, though if things crop up they can be discusssed. It was suggested that the first chapter be read before the next meeting, three times, the first all the way through as if reading a newspaper, the second out loud to oneself, the third with the intention to think about the content.
The issue of Gurdjieff's terminology arose. "R" said that Gurdjieff chose to express himself in terms that the other would be familar with, thus to the scientist Ouspensky he used terms from science like "hydrogens".
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A member of the group, Mechin, recounts how he has been seeing himself in a different light: "... one day in passing before a mirror, I was very surprised to see that I saw myself as a stranger." Gurdjieff responds: "... Your individuality is born. Before you were like an animal without 'I'. Now you have an 'I' and the properties of a man. This exercise has given you these. Before you had no individuality, you were the result of your body, like a dog, a cat or a camel. Now if you have horns, you can see them and be amazed at them.... You are a comrade of Mme Franc."
M said that here Gurdjieff was referring to one becoming a three-brained being - animals are two-brained and plants one-brained.
L said the implication was that Mme Franc's third brain was becoming more active. However could we be sure that animals could not be similarly self-reflective, without using verbal language as humans do - L cited the example of the vegetarian lion which resisted every encouragement to eat meat. http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm.
M referred to reports of hippopotamuses defending animals from attacking crocodiles. (E.g. see video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoP0xSMYcY0.)
L had similarly heard tales of seals or dolphins protecting adrift boats, e.g. Dick van Dyke in 2010 (in this case porpoises) http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/nov/11/dick-van-dyke-porpoises-rescue.
Finally those present reviewed significant, related things which had happened during the month.
For M, this was reading through Volume 1 of Beelzebub's Tales.
R had been focusing on being aware of the body - sitting still in a kneeling chair, being in the body and sensing it.
It was also decided to begin reading Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, being a seminal work of Gurdjieff. "R" thought Beelzebub's Tales alongside Views from the Real World, are the two books by Gurdjieff that are primary. M said that in his reading of the book, he had found Chapter 39, "The Holy Planet Purgatory", the most significant. (This chapter is the last one of the second book.) "R" recalled that her teacher had said that if you did not read anything else, you should read that section. It was decided to start methodically, the following month, at the beginning of the book. "R" said there are instructions at the start to read it three times, and suggested reading it as fluidly as possible, rather than focusing on discussion, though if things crop up they can be discusssed. It was suggested that the first chapter be read before the next meeting, three times, the first all the way through as if reading a newspaper, the second out loud to oneself, the third with the intention to think about the content.
The issue of Gurdjieff's terminology arose. "R" said that Gurdjieff chose to express himself in terms that the other would be familar with, thus to the scientist Ouspensky he used terms from science like "hydrogens".
The Meeting then continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A member of the group, Mechin, recounts how he has been seeing himself in a different light: "... one day in passing before a mirror, I was very surprised to see that I saw myself as a stranger." Gurdjieff responds: "... Your individuality is born. Before you were like an animal without 'I'. Now you have an 'I' and the properties of a man. This exercise has given you these. Before you had no individuality, you were the result of your body, like a dog, a cat or a camel. Now if you have horns, you can see them and be amazed at them.... You are a comrade of Mme Franc."
M said that here Gurdjieff was referring to one becoming a three-brained being - animals are two-brained and plants one-brained.
L said the implication was that Mme Franc's third brain was becoming more active. However could we be sure that animals could not be similarly self-reflective, without using verbal language as humans do - L cited the example of the vegetarian lion which resisted every encouragement to eat meat. http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm.
M referred to reports of hippopotamuses defending animals from attacking crocodiles. (E.g. see video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoP0xSMYcY0.)
L had similarly heard tales of seals or dolphins protecting adrift boats, e.g. Dick van Dyke in 2010 (in this case porpoises) http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/nov/11/dick-van-dyke-porpoises-rescue.
Finally those present reviewed significant, related things which had happened during the month.
For M, this was reading through Volume 1 of Beelzebub's Tales.
R had been focusing on being aware of the body - sitting still in a kneeling chair, being in the body and sensing it.
Sunday, May 1, 2011
Division into two
At the beginning of the meeting, M raised comments from Ouspensky about the distinction between morality and conscience, suggesting that morality was culturally relative. L queried whether this idea actually originated from Gurdjieff, arguing that morality is based logically on values which can be held in any culture.
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A questioner, Mme Franc, gives a progress report to Gurdjieff on the use of the exercises he had assigned to the group, and says "I did the two exercises that you had given me during the vacation, the exercise on the division into two and on the sensations of hot, cold, and tears. . . . For the division into two, I cannot say that I have succeeded in doing it, but the work has given me a center of gravity in my head. This has changed many things for me and has allowed me to de-identify myself a little from my body and I can see more clearly in my work. I know better what I am doing and how I must do it. This has changed values." Gurdjieff responds "I already understood that you had a personality. Now you feel in yourself something, a separation. The body is one thing and you are another thing."
M said the "division into two" refers to self observation.
T commented on Gurdjieff's response to the woman's description of de-identifying with her body and feeling her centre of gravity in her head. He was optimistic that the woman had started to feel a separation inside her - her body is one thing she is another thing. He was very positive about this small shift in perception of herself and spoke about needing to nurture this change as if it was a young boy needing good nutrition. T thought that it sounded as significant as a new birth and the baby needed good nourishment from the woman continuing to work in this way on her perception of herself, to enable the baby's life to be sustained and to thrive and to grow.
D recalled techniques from Bioenergetics for pain relief. For example, to think again and again of a colour and shape representing the pain, during which process the pain ebbs.
M had used the technique of imagining what a pain looks like, and that it be put on a passing bus, which is then watched till it goes out of sight - in his experience this has helped a pain go away.
D quoted Roberto Assagioli, the founder of psychosynthesis: "I am not my body".
(In contrast, a tenet of Bioenergetics is that a person is their body.)
M said one can think of any part of the body and put attention on it - the blood will begin to go there. The mind controls the body.
D commented that burn out can lead to ME. As this is an example of the body controlling the mind, L queried if what Gurdjieff says is correct - are we a mind with a body attached or a body with a mind attached?
D commented at length about the first reading's content and D and M had a lengthy exchange, about living in the head and or living in the body and which is in charge. M thought it necessary for the mind to be in charge and D spoke up for the body because the mind becomes too caught up with intellect and imagination and there is a risk of cut off, alienation and breakdown. D spoke about how he had to bring himself back into his body because he had become too detached from it. He gave the example of Jack Kerouac being a brilliant writer but dying from alcohol abuse at 47 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kerouac)
Continuing the reading, Mechin says "I tried to continue the exercise of division into two and, seeing that I could not succeed in it, I thought that this came about because the 'I' in me was not strong enough. . . . as during the vacation I was rather alone in the role that I had to play, I had to play it with my parents and above all my mother, there is where the difficulty arrived. I ascertained that I was completely incapable of playing a role, that it was impossible."
M noted that Mechin is talking about family problems, which particularly requre self-awareness.
D asked if this individuality is that of Jean-Paul Sartre's thinking, referring to his writing about the tree with roots in Nausea. If you are an individual, how do you create your reality?
L said that from Sartre's existentialist position, one can make art as extension of oneself, in this sense extending reality. An artist also has to observe very closely, for example an painter needs to be aware that the sky is not necessarily blue.
D thought it would be good to be at peace in the face of death.
L quoted the other view, from Dylan Thomas: "Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
D recalled another poem by Dylan Thomas, "And death shall have no dominion".
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
Last week D went to Books Etc in the O2 Centre, and picked out a book on The Secret; love and gratitude can heal - are these the same as self awareness? He left the bookshop with these feelings in his consciousness, and found people were more friendly to him, that there had been a change. M replied that self-remembering is a different thing, but they are linked.
L had been on route to a performance of a piece of his whose subtitle included elephants and water. On emerging from the railway station at the destination, he was confronted with a poster for a new movie called "Water from Elephants". How should one respond to such synchronicities and do they reflect any changes in consciousness? D said this had just reminded him of the Welsh composer Paul Mealor who by chance had just had his piece performed at the royal wedding, but there were dangers in seeing too much in coincidences. He recalled a friend who thought a bird flying across the windscreen of a car had some meaning. L mentioned that the word auspicious derives from the ancient and common practice of divination from a study of the behaviour of birds.
M had realised during the week that he wasn't really interested in various things that he thought he had been interested in - this followed from self-awareness exercises.
T had had difficulty, during the month, in maintaining her practice of yoga, such good habits can slip away. D suggested it might help to do hatha yoga in a group. In fact being alone too much is not good, being used in some cases as a punishment (solitary confinement). L mentioned that some hermits and monks deliberately seek out isolation in caves or on mountain tops. D had heard from a monk that some of these are crazy. L cited Leonard Cohen who retreated to a zen monastery for several years. D quoted Jack Kerouac as saying that his experience alone fire watching had turned him to drink. M asked if Jack Kerouac had a purpose. D said that for Leonard Cohen it was burnout, and likewise for Kerouac.
The meeting continued reading the third lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 18 September, 1943. A questioner, Mme Franc, gives a progress report to Gurdjieff on the use of the exercises he had assigned to the group, and says "I did the two exercises that you had given me during the vacation, the exercise on the division into two and on the sensations of hot, cold, and tears. . . . For the division into two, I cannot say that I have succeeded in doing it, but the work has given me a center of gravity in my head. This has changed many things for me and has allowed me to de-identify myself a little from my body and I can see more clearly in my work. I know better what I am doing and how I must do it. This has changed values." Gurdjieff responds "I already understood that you had a personality. Now you feel in yourself something, a separation. The body is one thing and you are another thing."
M said the "division into two" refers to self observation.
T commented on Gurdjieff's response to the woman's description of de-identifying with her body and feeling her centre of gravity in her head. He was optimistic that the woman had started to feel a separation inside her - her body is one thing she is another thing. He was very positive about this small shift in perception of herself and spoke about needing to nurture this change as if it was a young boy needing good nutrition. T thought that it sounded as significant as a new birth and the baby needed good nourishment from the woman continuing to work in this way on her perception of herself, to enable the baby's life to be sustained and to thrive and to grow.
D recalled techniques from Bioenergetics for pain relief. For example, to think again and again of a colour and shape representing the pain, during which process the pain ebbs.
M had used the technique of imagining what a pain looks like, and that it be put on a passing bus, which is then watched till it goes out of sight - in his experience this has helped a pain go away.
D quoted Roberto Assagioli, the founder of psychosynthesis: "I am not my body".
(In contrast, a tenet of Bioenergetics is that a person is their body.)
M said one can think of any part of the body and put attention on it - the blood will begin to go there. The mind controls the body.
D commented that burn out can lead to ME. As this is an example of the body controlling the mind, L queried if what Gurdjieff says is correct - are we a mind with a body attached or a body with a mind attached?
D commented at length about the first reading's content and D and M had a lengthy exchange, about living in the head and or living in the body and which is in charge. M thought it necessary for the mind to be in charge and D spoke up for the body because the mind becomes too caught up with intellect and imagination and there is a risk of cut off, alienation and breakdown. D spoke about how he had to bring himself back into his body because he had become too detached from it. He gave the example of Jack Kerouac being a brilliant writer but dying from alcohol abuse at 47 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kerouac)
Continuing the reading, Mechin says "I tried to continue the exercise of division into two and, seeing that I could not succeed in it, I thought that this came about because the 'I' in me was not strong enough. . . . as during the vacation I was rather alone in the role that I had to play, I had to play it with my parents and above all my mother, there is where the difficulty arrived. I ascertained that I was completely incapable of playing a role, that it was impossible."
M noted that Mechin is talking about family problems, which particularly requre self-awareness.
D asked if this individuality is that of Jean-Paul Sartre's thinking, referring to his writing about the tree with roots in Nausea. If you are an individual, how do you create your reality?
L said that from Sartre's existentialist position, one can make art as extension of oneself, in this sense extending reality. An artist also has to observe very closely, for example an painter needs to be aware that the sky is not necessarily blue.
D thought it would be good to be at peace in the face of death.
L quoted the other view, from Dylan Thomas: "Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
D recalled another poem by Dylan Thomas, "And death shall have no dominion".
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
Last week D went to Books Etc in the O2 Centre, and picked out a book on The Secret; love and gratitude can heal - are these the same as self awareness? He left the bookshop with these feelings in his consciousness, and found people were more friendly to him, that there had been a change. M replied that self-remembering is a different thing, but they are linked.
L had been on route to a performance of a piece of his whose subtitle included elephants and water. On emerging from the railway station at the destination, he was confronted with a poster for a new movie called "Water from Elephants". How should one respond to such synchronicities and do they reflect any changes in consciousness? D said this had just reminded him of the Welsh composer Paul Mealor who by chance had just had his piece performed at the royal wedding, but there were dangers in seeing too much in coincidences. He recalled a friend who thought a bird flying across the windscreen of a car had some meaning. L mentioned that the word auspicious derives from the ancient and common practice of divination from a study of the behaviour of birds.
M had realised during the week that he wasn't really interested in various things that he thought he had been interested in - this followed from self-awareness exercises.
T had had difficulty, during the month, in maintaining her practice of yoga, such good habits can slip away. D suggested it might help to do hatha yoga in a group. In fact being alone too much is not good, being used in some cases as a punishment (solitary confinement). L mentioned that some hermits and monks deliberately seek out isolation in caves or on mountain tops. D had heard from a monk that some of these are crazy. L cited Leonard Cohen who retreated to a zen monastery for several years. D quoted Jack Kerouac as saying that his experience alone fire watching had turned him to drink. M asked if Jack Kerouac had a purpose. D said that for Leonard Cohen it was burnout, and likewise for Kerouac.
Sunday, April 3, 2011
Associations and Distractions
The meeting continued reading the second lecture of the Eight Meetings in Paris, held on 22 July, 1943. A questionner, Ansi, said, in bewilderment " . . . if something wounds me, instead of being angry or offended, I am indifferent.". Gurdjieff responded: "Before, you had your own love. It is cheap, it is an ordinary thing; now you have understood it. You see that it is idiotic, a nullity, an excrement; before, you did not know it. Today you see it; you are not angry. You see the manifestations of excrement. If it is like this, I am very content. Without wanting it, without knowing it, you have already advanced objectively, mechanically advanced. Soon, you can be our estimable comrade."
L suggested here that Gurdjieff was referring to the destruction of ego, as those with a sense of self-importance are more vulnerable to criticism. Also a mind adrift in associative thought is rather like one who dreams.
M suggested the notion that while people sleep and dream, their thoughts are harvested.
L asked what Gurdjieff meant by it being important to have an aim, saying that not having one is similar to having an unfocused mind and being influenced by associative thoughts.
"R" gave the example of a soldier, who through the influence of others might find himself on foreign soil fighting in an unexpected war.
L remarked how even in an advanced country like the UK, almost at the drop of a hat, the government can become involved in a war.
T said that the phenomenon of the successful military operation is an example of an outward manifestation of the successful internal organisation of the individual, the body-mind system. In the successful military operaton the generals direct proceedings and the soldiers carry out the instructions. In the individual, if you have a clear aim, your body-mind can carry out the task set it. The operations are unsuccessful for the military or the individual if the aims are unclear or confusing or if there is dissent in the ranks.
"R" considered the possibility that in some people there may be an inbuilt destiny which may or may not be followed, and mentioned a comment by Ouspensky in The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution that there is only a limited amount of information. It was the first book on the Work she read, and on reading that passage she thought that if the amount was indeed limited, she wanted some of that information.
L mentioned the belief in the "original instructions" of native American cultures, that everything is made with a preordained path to follow.
Discussion continued on the challenge of remaining focused. M said he has found that when he is experiencing negative thoughts he tends to substitute positive thoughts and finds this helpful as the negative thoughts are pushed from their prominent position in his mind. He said the part of the mind doing this is what Gurdjieff referred to as the "silent witness".
Reading on, Gurjieff described the flow of background thoughts as like the circulation of blood in that it is an automatic process which should not distract from an aim.
M said that he has a project to clear fifty files and so far has worked through one.
L said it important to work from a list, but that the size of the list should be limited. One way to do this is to date every task that goes on the list, and to remove every day those that have been there for more than a month.
T gave the example of life drawing. The mark making of an observational drawing is the response to the reality of the experience of seeing the human being in front of the artist. This experience informs the lines and shading. If someone looks and then spends a long time drawing, looking at the paper, one wonders what the artist is drawing. The inpact of the real life experience to the drawing reduces the longer the pause between the looking and the drawing. The mind begins to add marks it thinks should be there to express the phenomena of the model but by this time the mind is filling in with the stuff of assumptions as to what the eye is seeing. The practice is to discipline the eye to be looking more than drawing.
Continuing the reading, Gurdjieff expands on the subject, saying "Under all conditions, in all political situations, man must educate his body to be submissive to him . . . You understand what is meant by intelligent? Intelligent means he who directs his body. If the body directs , you are a nullity, a peasant - if you direct your body you are intelligent. Thus, choose what you want. Intelligent or peasant? . . . The more you want to direct your body, the more it opposes you. And in resisting you, the more strength it gives you."
L thought that an alternative view was that the mind and body form a unit, and organism. Thus if a part of the body aches, rather that ignore it, it is information leading to a habitual posture which is the result of thoughts. Changing the thoughts might help solve the pain, but ignoring the pain might lead to a problem becoming worse.
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
T made a choice en route to work one morning, at the fork in the road: to arrive early or to go via the sweet shop to satisfy hunger for something sweet inside. The latter choice won, and she arrived at work late. She observed that there was a process of diversion from the intention coming from another source of feeling sorry for herself and wanting a treat, a reward; she saw there was choice and made the choice and experienced the real consequences of that choice. She chose the route to the chocolate croissant! The reality of the sweet croissant was that it was tough and dry and she threw it into the park for the birds!
M spoke of waking and getting up at the same time following intention and will rather than instinctive desire to stay in the warm and comfortable bed; seeing the two routes and taking the "getting up" route and feeling good about this. He now has developed this habit and is consciously aware that it is a choice each time.
R is visiting her mother in the nursing home and read her a lecture in German from a professor in her mother's subject. She had spoken to one of her teachers who had recommended being aware of a part of the body while doing a habitual task. She found that reading to her mother a text in German, an unfamiliar but phonetic language, enabled her to be present in her body - the foreign-ness helped her as she was unable to get involved in the content of the paper. She read for two periods of 2 hours and her mother's response was a genuine "very interesting".
L has been getting up very early to do writing, but is sometimes getting distracted by other things before sitting down to this daily task.
L suggested here that Gurdjieff was referring to the destruction of ego, as those with a sense of self-importance are more vulnerable to criticism. Also a mind adrift in associative thought is rather like one who dreams.
M suggested the notion that while people sleep and dream, their thoughts are harvested.
L asked what Gurdjieff meant by it being important to have an aim, saying that not having one is similar to having an unfocused mind and being influenced by associative thoughts.
"R" gave the example of a soldier, who through the influence of others might find himself on foreign soil fighting in an unexpected war.
L remarked how even in an advanced country like the UK, almost at the drop of a hat, the government can become involved in a war.
T said that the phenomenon of the successful military operation is an example of an outward manifestation of the successful internal organisation of the individual, the body-mind system. In the successful military operaton the generals direct proceedings and the soldiers carry out the instructions. In the individual, if you have a clear aim, your body-mind can carry out the task set it. The operations are unsuccessful for the military or the individual if the aims are unclear or confusing or if there is dissent in the ranks.
"R" considered the possibility that in some people there may be an inbuilt destiny which may or may not be followed, and mentioned a comment by Ouspensky in The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution that there is only a limited amount of information. It was the first book on the Work she read, and on reading that passage she thought that if the amount was indeed limited, she wanted some of that information.
L mentioned the belief in the "original instructions" of native American cultures, that everything is made with a preordained path to follow.
Discussion continued on the challenge of remaining focused. M said he has found that when he is experiencing negative thoughts he tends to substitute positive thoughts and finds this helpful as the negative thoughts are pushed from their prominent position in his mind. He said the part of the mind doing this is what Gurdjieff referred to as the "silent witness".
Reading on, Gurjieff described the flow of background thoughts as like the circulation of blood in that it is an automatic process which should not distract from an aim.
M said that he has a project to clear fifty files and so far has worked through one.
L said it important to work from a list, but that the size of the list should be limited. One way to do this is to date every task that goes on the list, and to remove every day those that have been there for more than a month.
T gave the example of life drawing. The mark making of an observational drawing is the response to the reality of the experience of seeing the human being in front of the artist. This experience informs the lines and shading. If someone looks and then spends a long time drawing, looking at the paper, one wonders what the artist is drawing. The inpact of the real life experience to the drawing reduces the longer the pause between the looking and the drawing. The mind begins to add marks it thinks should be there to express the phenomena of the model but by this time the mind is filling in with the stuff of assumptions as to what the eye is seeing. The practice is to discipline the eye to be looking more than drawing.
Continuing the reading, Gurdjieff expands on the subject, saying "Under all conditions, in all political situations, man must educate his body to be submissive to him . . . You understand what is meant by intelligent? Intelligent means he who directs his body. If the body directs , you are a nullity, a peasant - if you direct your body you are intelligent. Thus, choose what you want. Intelligent or peasant? . . . The more you want to direct your body, the more it opposes you. And in resisting you, the more strength it gives you."
L thought that an alternative view was that the mind and body form a unit, and organism. Thus if a part of the body aches, rather that ignore it, it is information leading to a habitual posture which is the result of thoughts. Changing the thoughts might help solve the pain, but ignoring the pain might lead to a problem becoming worse.
Concluding the meeting, each participant gave an example of relevant experience from the previous month:
T made a choice en route to work one morning, at the fork in the road: to arrive early or to go via the sweet shop to satisfy hunger for something sweet inside. The latter choice won, and she arrived at work late. She observed that there was a process of diversion from the intention coming from another source of feeling sorry for herself and wanting a treat, a reward; she saw there was choice and made the choice and experienced the real consequences of that choice. She chose the route to the chocolate croissant! The reality of the sweet croissant was that it was tough and dry and she threw it into the park for the birds!
M spoke of waking and getting up at the same time following intention and will rather than instinctive desire to stay in the warm and comfortable bed; seeing the two routes and taking the "getting up" route and feeling good about this. He now has developed this habit and is consciously aware that it is a choice each time.
R is visiting her mother in the nursing home and read her a lecture in German from a professor in her mother's subject. She had spoken to one of her teachers who had recommended being aware of a part of the body while doing a habitual task. She found that reading to her mother a text in German, an unfamiliar but phonetic language, enabled her to be present in her body - the foreign-ness helped her as she was unable to get involved in the content of the paper. She read for two periods of 2 hours and her mother's response was a genuine "very interesting".
L has been getting up very early to do writing, but is sometimes getting distracted by other things before sitting down to this daily task.
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