On the mornings when N had done the CHALLENGE, it was often on waking from a dream which had propelled him into being more conscious, and sometimes it was quite an emotional dream.
There was a part of him which had not wanted to wake up and be there, and then there was a tension, or conflict. As regards the second part, which was about accepting something he could not change, sometimes acceptance took time. The emotional centre took time, sometimes, to adjust to new situations. The mornings he did do it, he felt a greater alertness, attentiveness, generally during the day. It brought him into the world faster, earlier, quicker. He thought there was a part of him that quite liked to be in a dreamy state.
He liked dreamy things, the music of Debussy, almost like being at that sensuous level, and living at that level. So there was a part of him that had to sometimes wake up and be more realistic, and less sentimental, maybe, about things. And then in the course of the day, when he had moments of more clarity, more wakefulness, he thought it was certainly better on those days on which he had had more of an experience in the morning. So as an early morning process he thought it had worked for him.
K said that recently he had been walking with a friend, who did not know anything about Gurdjieff, and he found himself doing the challenge. He stopped walking for a bit, being immersed in it, and she asked What's going on? He said that these Gurdjieff Meetings which he went to, had a challenge to do last week, and funnily enough when he had suggested the challenge at the Meeting in that moment, he found himself in what Gurdjieff described as being-astonishment, which was a complete lack of humility and that was a real kick-starter for him, during the meeting about humility.
When L woke up in the morning from a dream, he had not always had the presence of mind to remember - Ah, this is the Gurdjieff CHALLENGE - I'm going to try and stay in the place between the sleeping dream and the waking dream - but he had had the presence of mind several times, and on those occasions it had felt like a period of greater wakefulness before he was overwhelmed by his adapted personality to the world he lived in. He thought that was helpful, and thanked K for his suggestion.
He had also recalled having read of a similar idea. Just when going to sleep but before the onset of dreaming, there was an opportunity to go to another place, a kind of doorway. He did not know who had written about that, but there was a similar situation, when going from the waking dream to the sleeping dream - a point of inflection in between. He had tried to latch hold of that once or twice, too. During the day, his trigger was more when he noticed himself worrying about things, rather than when he became awake. He would then ask Am I here? - this was RM's idea - and then he would accept that he could respond to things, but not change people, and nor should he want to. He could only try to change himself.
Ever since he had come across this idea as an exercise, RM had been doing it every morning. As soon as he could he asked himself, Am I here? He no longer needed to ask Am I here? because he would get to the point where he would say, I wasn't here, was I? It was a strange thing. It was having effect throughout his life now. There was a sense of presence about things. He had a sense that this was where the real work was done. There was a depth of understanding growing all the time.
When T remembered to say Am I here?, she could not locate what the word I related to. There was one moment which was quite soon after the last Meeting, so the challenge was fresh in her mind. She had gone to the cafe before work and was quite anxious because of stuff going on at work, and she asked herself that question, Am I here?, in this strange situation, and she just felt terror, thinking about the whole environment and herself. She felt as if she had no control over her situation, and she was there and then quickly gathered herself not to be there, and to carry on in the modus operandi of who she thought she was during the working day. She had found it a disturbing challenge, but deep and necessary.
Responding to T, D said the "I" had been aware of all she described, it was watching everything that was going on. Who was watching? That was the authentic I, the one that was observing her efforts to locate it, this terror, thinking about work. He did not think it was the situation itself, it was how you thought about the situation, how you reacted to the situation. The situation was neutral. T said that when she had awareness of 'the observer', which was actually quite a nice state, she did not want to be detached, but this state was absent in those moments that she had described; in those moments she was in the situation, totally immersed.
The reading continued from Chapter 24 of Beelzebub's Tales.
The learned beings ... used often to meet together and of course to discuss ... questions which were either immeasurably beyond their comprehension, or about which they could never elucidate anything useful whatsoever, either for themselves or for ordinary beings there.
The question which chanced to become the-burning-question-of-the-day so vitally touched the whole being of every one of them, that they even ‘climbed down’ from their what are called ‘pedestals’ and began discussing it not only with the learned like themselves, but also here, there and everywhere with anyone they chanced to come across.
The consequence was that an interest in this question gradually spread among all the ordinary three-brained beings then existing in Babylon, and by about the time we reached this city it had become the question-of-the-day for all the beings there.
K said that in order for something to be real, it had to be validated by consensus. That burning question spread because a consensus to discuss it had been arrived at. What J had found interesting, was that there was the initial, crucial, daily assumption of the Persian King, like for instance Alexander the Great, who was taught by Aristotle. The learning process was wonderful, learning all about humanity, and then he went off, and built his Empire, destroying beings like himself. So was Gurdjieff saying there that what starts off as a very constructive, thinking process has a tendency to get perverted in time? RM said that the most useful thing was the question itself. It became un-useful when you had the answer. While you had a quest, which was an open question, that was a very healthy coming together. The minute somebody said I know the answer, and everybody had to follow them, then it actually got completely skewed. Answers were not very helpful. It was questions which were. "R" said that questions bring energy. RM said that answers block things.
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Every morning, at that moment when you wake up and are in between the world of the sleeping dream and the waking dream, ask Am I here? and then observe if it makes any difference during the day, or during the beginning of the day. Also, once during the day, when at the moment where you have woken up to the fact that you were asleep, ask Am I here? and then think of something you would rather not be the case but cannot change, and accept it, rather than have strong feelings about it.
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K said that recently he had been walking with a friend, who did not know anything about Gurdjieff, and he found himself doing the challenge. He stopped walking for a bit, being immersed in it, and she asked What's going on? He said that these Gurdjieff Meetings which he went to, had a challenge to do last week, and funnily enough when he had suggested the challenge at the Meeting in that moment, he found himself in what Gurdjieff described as being-astonishment, which was a complete lack of humility and that was a real kick-starter for him, during the meeting about humility.
Dream Door 1 Jeremy Kemeni 2014 |
Ever since he had come across this idea as an exercise, RM had been doing it every morning. As soon as he could he asked himself, Am I here? He no longer needed to ask Am I here? because he would get to the point where he would say, I wasn't here, was I? It was a strange thing. It was having effect throughout his life now. There was a sense of presence about things. He had a sense that this was where the real work was done. There was a depth of understanding growing all the time.
When T remembered to say Am I here?, she could not locate what the word I related to. There was one moment which was quite soon after the last Meeting, so the challenge was fresh in her mind. She had gone to the cafe before work and was quite anxious because of stuff going on at work, and she asked herself that question, Am I here?, in this strange situation, and she just felt terror, thinking about the whole environment and herself. She felt as if she had no control over her situation, and she was there and then quickly gathered herself not to be there, and to carry on in the modus operandi of who she thought she was during the working day. She had found it a disturbing challenge, but deep and necessary.
Responding to T, D said the "I" had been aware of all she described, it was watching everything that was going on. Who was watching? That was the authentic I, the one that was observing her efforts to locate it, this terror, thinking about work. He did not think it was the situation itself, it was how you thought about the situation, how you reacted to the situation. The situation was neutral. T said that when she had awareness of 'the observer', which was actually quite a nice state, she did not want to be detached, but this state was absent in those moments that she had described; in those moments she was in the situation, totally immersed.
The reading continued from Chapter 24 of Beelzebub's Tales.
The learned beings ... used often to meet together and of course to discuss ... questions which were either immeasurably beyond their comprehension, or about which they could never elucidate anything useful whatsoever, either for themselves or for ordinary beings there.
The question which chanced to become the-burning-question-of-the-day so vitally touched the whole being of every one of them, that they even ‘climbed down’ from their what are called ‘pedestals’ and began discussing it not only with the learned like themselves, but also here, there and everywhere with anyone they chanced to come across.
The consequence was that an interest in this question gradually spread among all the ordinary three-brained beings then existing in Babylon, and by about the time we reached this city it had become the question-of-the-day for all the beings there.
K said that in order for something to be real, it had to be validated by consensus. That burning question spread because a consensus to discuss it had been arrived at. What J had found interesting, was that there was the initial, crucial, daily assumption of the Persian King, like for instance Alexander the Great, who was taught by Aristotle. The learning process was wonderful, learning all about humanity, and then he went off, and built his Empire, destroying beings like himself. So was Gurdjieff saying there that what starts off as a very constructive, thinking process has a tendency to get perverted in time? RM said that the most useful thing was the question itself. It became un-useful when you had the answer. While you had a quest, which was an open question, that was a very healthy coming together. The minute somebody said I know the answer, and everybody had to follow them, then it actually got completely skewed. Answers were not very helpful. It was questions which were. "R" said that questions bring energy. RM said that answers block things.
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